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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#121952: May 11th 2016 at 5:45:23 AM

And, to be honest, it seems to reach a fever pitch in colleges. I rarely see working professionals who still behave like that. The realities of a working life tend to iron out a person's eccentricities for the better. When you're in college, especially when you're in one of those nonsense liberal arts majors that are pretty much sustained through the proposition of increasingly wacky ideas, the engine that fuels the sort of discourse that SJW's thrive on is self-sustaining.
That's the most conformist, anti-intellectual drivel you have ever written. The same bullshit that was raised against basically all social movements ever. Brought to you by ad hominems.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#121953: May 11th 2016 at 5:47:14 AM

Some rumblings I hear are that the Facebook algorithm is tuned to focus on news websites considered factual. You get three guesses as to which news websites are not considered factual.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#121954: May 11th 2016 at 6:00:19 AM

Since the Muslim 'major' of London was mentioned earlier:

"London's mayor an exception to proposed ban on Muslims: Trump" - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Y104K

How very tolerant of Trump...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121955: May 11th 2016 at 6:13:30 AM

[up][up] Yeah, this is part of the fun... if you tune your algorithms towards factual news, then conservatives complain that their news is being shut out...

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#121956: May 11th 2016 at 6:43:10 AM

@Fighteer: I know you did so deliberately, and I feel that this kind of rhetoric effect is beneath you.

Regarding this race, it would generally become Clintonians to be more gracious in victory. There's a general election to win. There were mistakes and mean words from both sides. I'd think it's time we moved on from that. As Clinton herself said:

I’m 3 million votes ahead of Senator Sanders, nearly 300 pledged delegates ahead of him. He has to make his own mind up, but I was very heartened to hear him say last week that he’s going to work seven days a week to make sure Donald Trump does not become president. And I want to unify the party. I see a great role and opportunity for him and his supporters to be part of that unified party, to move into not just November to win the election against Donald Trump, but to then govern based on the progressive goals that he and I share.

But what I will do is do everything that I can to make sure that somebody like a Donald Trump or some other right-wing Republican does not become president of the United States. We do not need more tax breaks for billionaires, more cuts to Social Security, Medicare, more ignoring the fact—the Republicans don’t even accept the reality of climate change, let alone being prepared to do something about it. So I will do everything that I can to defeat any Republican candidate.

If Secretary Clinton is the nominee, she is going to have to make the case to the American people, not just to my supporters, but all Americans, that she is prepared to stand up to the billionaire class, she is prepared to fight for healthcare for all Americans, that she is prepared to pass paid family and medical leave, make sure that college is affordable for the young people in this country. That is what she has got to do. And I hope, if she is the nominee, that she does that well.

See? There it is, mutual respect.

According to Ralph Nader, Sanders Should Stay in Democratic Race, Is Only Losing Due to Anti-Democratic System,

Clinton has faced widespread criticism in West Virginia after she recently said, quote, "We’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business."

Thank god. Coal needs to go already.

Primaries are paid by taxpayers; they should not be closed to independent voters.

Fair enough, Ralph.

Nader in that interview is being misleading:

Hillary Clinton is consolidating her support among Wall Street donors and other businesses ahead of a general-election battle with Donald Trump, winning more campaign contributions from financial-services executives in the most recent fundraising period than all other candidates combined.

This is because of all the other republican candidates dropping out, and, I believe, Wall Street being in the ANYONE BUT TRUMP territory. Between Hillary and Sanders, their options are obvious, so this recent money influx does not reflect badly on Hillary.

Yeah, well, as explained in a nice article by my former campaign manager, Theresa Amato, what happens is that first an independent candidate has to surmount 50 state ballot access laws, some of them so draconian as to defy satire, like in North Carolina and Texas and California.

The second thing they have to do is ward off all kinds of frivolous lawsuits, for example, by the Democratic Party. They confronted us with 24 lawsuits in 12 weeks in 2004 in various states to get us off the ballot, drain our resources, distract our focus. We won most of them. But it was a—it was a typical example of the workings of the two-party tyranny.

And third, these primaries, whether Democrat primaries or state primaries, Amy, are paid by the taxpayer. And many states have open primaries. They say, "OK, anybody can cross over and vote in any primary." Well, I think that’s proper. If the parties want to pay for their own primaries with their own private money, that’s one thing. But you don’t have taxpayer-supported official primaries that become the private preserve of closed primaries, Democrat or Republican.

Here are some quick examples. Recently there was a gathering in Washington for the press on solitary confinement, by the leading specialist in the area, Jim Ridgeway, and several people who were arbitrarily and cruelly confined in a solitary cell. No press whatsoever. And then, about the same time, George Washington University had a major symposium on tax havens, tax escapes of corporations, in places like the Grand Cayman Island. No press whatsoever. And then they had these Democracy Awakening and Democracy Spring in Washington, D.C. The Washington Post just completely declined to cover it. Democracy Now! covered it, NPR covered it. But they were trying to push into the electoral process issues like campaign finance reform.

And here’s the real kicker. Former FCC Commissioner Michael Copps, a very progressive man, has been trying to get the mass media to pay attention to Section 317 of the 1934 communications law. What does that say? It requires, without exception, the disclosure of all donor names to these PA Cs and super PA Cs. There is no exception. And the FCC has been sitting on a Common Cause petition and other previous petitions, and doing nothing. Gets no coverage by the mass media, that is focusing on an ever-increasing trivial presidential race, avoiding major issues, avoiding the great issues of the distribution of power, wealth and income in our society and its impact abroad, continuing to do that and not allowing the civil society to break in.

And the third is a surprise, is that a lot of these issues are supported by left-right. They’re supported by left-right. Conservatives like to have their children breathe clean air and drink clean water and eat safe foods and have safe medicines and have a voice and have a decent education, and when they grow up, to have a living wage. There’s 75 to 80 percent of the people support a higher minimum wage.

edited 11th May '16 7:12:16 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121957: May 11th 2016 at 6:56:27 AM

Sure, but in case you haven't noticed, Sanders is still trying to amass delegates for the convention. Anecdotally, I'm still seeing vehement anti-Clinton hateposts from my Facebook friends. Look, I've said time and time again that I like the man; I just don't see him as sufficiently credible.

The important thing, though, is winning in November. If Trump's orange ass is the one sitting in the Oval Office in January, then it won't matter beans how many delegates Sanders got, or could have gotten had the stars aligned differently or DWS not been such a jerk.

Edit: Some more Maddowblog links...

A post-policy party finds a post-policy candidate. Trump has not bothered to give any details of his policy statements, saying only that he'll pick advisers and solidify his agenda after he's won, because doing so now is a distraction from the stump. Yeah.

Trump plans to raise 1.5 billion for his campaign, giving away his strongest argument: that he's not beholden to anyone else's money.

Oh, and for the left, Hillary Clinton continues to fight for a "public option" in Obamacare. The public option would allow consumers to purchase government-run health insurance plans that compete alongside private plans in the exchanges. She's been for this for quite a while, mind you. Not quite single-payer, but it's a step closer.

edited 11th May '16 7:17:48 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#121958: May 11th 2016 at 7:16:17 AM

Of course he's still trying to amass delegates; why in the world would you want him to drop out? And what's a DWS?

edited 11th May '16 7:16:52 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#121959: May 11th 2016 at 7:19:25 AM

[up]Presumably so we can get on with the general election now that Trump is the Republican candidate. I imagine many people fear (and not with out reason) that Sanders continuing his campaign will only bog down and damage Clinton, especially if he some how forces a contested convention (which I doubt will happen).

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#121960: May 11th 2016 at 7:20:54 AM

[up][up]Debbie Wasserman Schultz, leader of the Democratic National Committee. She has been dogged by allegations of bias towards Hillary, and not unjustifiably so.

The torrent of hate directed at Hillary from inside the party is probably a bit over the top, though.

edited 11th May '16 7:22:19 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121961: May 11th 2016 at 7:24:36 AM

In fairness to Sanders, he's clarified that his focus now is on having enough support at the convention to get elements of his overall political agenda incorporated into the official Democratic party platform, which seems reasonable enough to me. Of course, Clinton's people are under no obligation to do so, but they should consider at least some concessions to help keep Sanders' voters engaged.

Edit: The screams from Bernie's hardcore supporters seem to be that Hillary needs to move left if she wants to secure the votes of independents who are fed up with business as usual. The problem, of course, is that "independents", more or less by definition, are not a uniform voting bloc that one can simply decide to appeal to. In the election calculus, every time you attract a young voter with the promise of single-payer healthcare, you lose a donation that might help you reach ten other undecided voters, and that young voter might not even go to the polls for you in November anyway.

If there's someone who is seriously considering "Bernie or Trump", it's probably not someone that Clinton wants to be reaching out to, anyway.

edited 11th May '16 7:43:29 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#121962: May 11th 2016 at 8:41:38 AM

The public option would allow consumers to purchase government-run health insurance plans that compete alongside private plans in the exchanges. She's been for this for quite a while, mind you. Not quite single-payer, but it's a step closer.

It's the same sort of system that is in use in Germany, France and Japan.

Keep Rolling On
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#121963: May 11th 2016 at 8:57:30 AM

I'd argue that's actually the opposite of what Hillary should do. She should portray herself as a moderate, to catch the Never-Trump Republicans.

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#121964: May 11th 2016 at 9:26:28 AM

Conservatives like to have their children breathe clean air and drink clean water and eat safe foods and have safe medicines and have a voice and have a decent education, and when they grow up, to have a living wage. There’s 75 to 80 percent of the people support a higher minimum wage.

Is this, in fact, correct?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#121965: May 11th 2016 at 9:50:16 AM

Absolutely. Most Republicans also want strengthened gun safety laws, such as expanded background checks, bans on straw purchases, and the elimination of the gun show loophole.

Partly, this goes to show just how out of touch the Republican establishment is with its voters, and partly it goes to show how powerful the "wag-the-dog" effect of groups like the NRA and the Tea Party are.

edited 11th May '16 9:50:51 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#121966: May 11th 2016 at 9:54:24 AM

May also explain why Trump hasn't been burned in effigy despite his often flip-floppy approach to such things.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#121967: May 11th 2016 at 10:02:32 AM

It's what's been brought up before. The American government tends to be significantly to the right of the actual population, since the Republican part is being controlled by a really tiny part of the population. The very wealthy beforehand, and the Tea Party now. (Since the Tea Party isn't actually that big, they're just one of the only groups that bother voting in the smaller primaries.)

edited 11th May '16 10:02:56 AM by Zendervai

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#121968: May 11th 2016 at 10:30:27 AM

That's true now, sadly, but it wasn't a few decades ago. Compare the Civil Rights movement in the 60s to the state of LGBT rights more recently, for example. The Supreme Court struck down things like laws enforcing segregation and banning interracial marriages before a majority of the public supported doing so, while things like gay marriage have only been legalized after more people were supportive of it than opposed to it. The US military was one of the first institutions in the country to desegregate and one of the last to accept openly LGBT people. We've switched from a minority of people agitating for equal rights under the law and the law backing them up even against the will of the majority, to a majority of people being accepting of equal rights and having to push back against a vocal minority in order to get the law to play catch-up.

At least we're still moving in the right direction, though.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#121969: May 11th 2016 at 10:33:11 AM

The public option is nice, though i fear it would get badly watered down by legislation to make it uncompetitive which would defeat the purpose.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#121970: May 11th 2016 at 11:40:36 AM

Found a book called Future Right: Forging A New Republican Majority.

The guy is talking about how while the Democratic Party is strong lately, "as more women, minorities, and young enter the middle class, they will find Democratic Party identity politics both stale and inadequate."

He's talking about a neo-neoconservative movement, and how as women, youth and minorities become better off, they're going to want laws to protect their new wealth and morals.

Maybe. I don't know if I'd go Republican unless maybe the Democrats started looking worse.

False dichotomy, though.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#121971: May 11th 2016 at 11:46:54 AM

Won't happen. The GOP policies don't work and not all (relatively) well off people are Republicans. More importantly, the GOP is critically dependent on a voter segment that will not tolerate any help to the other people.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#121972: May 11th 2016 at 11:53:24 AM

Token "Republicans could sway white hispanics far more fiercely than before, as to gain a growing demographic."

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#121973: May 11th 2016 at 11:54:54 AM

The key is that the GOP is alienating these people despite their wealth and status making them more inclined towards GOP economic orthodoxy.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#121974: May 11th 2016 at 11:59:37 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] That's good though. When only a minority of people wanted change things were a mess. More importantly changes supported by the majority tend to last longer. Bussing was near universally unpopular, and now schools are more segregated than ever.

Edit: Don't count the GOP out just yet. The Democrats, and liberals in general, were a national joke for a while, and the GOP has been declared dead on several occasions. They could come back by ether getting a candidate who reflects Trump but isn't as divisive, like maybe keeping the protectionism, and the authoritarianism and the tough talk, but demphising the racism. Or they could just wait around 20 years and watch the Democrats run the country into the ground.

edited 11th May '16 12:02:25 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#121975: May 11th 2016 at 12:00:14 PM

There's no way the Republicans are going to remain viable without moving significantly to the left both on social and economic issues.

All the predictors indicate that millenials are about as opposed to American conservatism as is possible given the political environment they grew up in, and if the Republicans intend to continue obstructing the government whenever they're prevented from having their way, the same will be true of the following generation.

Presumably things will eventually swing back the other way, as political ideology is wont to do, but the GOP is setting itself up for a really bad time going into the future.


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