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nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#120926: May 3rd 2016 at 8:35:17 PM

if you're voting based on that one single issue you've got some serious single issue wonk going on and are probably voting poorly. Trump might not sign the TPP (I don't think anyone's asked him and I think it's fallen out of the general public consciousness) but he would be terrible in regards to things like women's rights, the rights of immigrants, Muslims, equal pay, foreign relations. Yeah, for a president you've really got to consider the whole package and not just one or two issues.
Not saying those issues too aren't worth addressing, but in terms of priorty, I consider the TPP to be more pressing at the moment.

edited 3rd May '16 8:36:01 PM by nervmeister

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#120927: May 3rd 2016 at 8:37:34 PM

Why? Forget calling it a single issue, it's a single piece of legislation. It's not going to suddenly destroy all of the internet and send us back into the Dark Ages.

edited 3rd May '16 8:42:45 PM by LSBK

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120928: May 3rd 2016 at 8:39:30 PM

As horrible looming problems go, the TPP isn't even in the top ten.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#120929: May 3rd 2016 at 8:48:21 PM

[up]Maybe not. But some of the TPP's provisions sound like a Weyland-Yutani-esque wet dream.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120930: May 3rd 2016 at 8:53:56 PM

Hardly. You've been corrupted by the lack of filters of the infosphere.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#120931: May 3rd 2016 at 8:55:55 PM

In case you were wondering, yes, Trump might just cause permanent damage to US foreign relations.

Another War on the Rocks contributor suggests that Hillary's "hawk" reputation has less to do with actual hawkishness and more her views on the US military's roles.

Also, it's possible to back out of the TPP. It would look really weird if every country involved decided several months in that it really wasn't worth it and backed out, but it's possible. And there's nothing stopping website owners from creating secret, secure offsite backups if it's somehow as bad as they fear it is.

edited 3rd May '16 8:58:11 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#120932: May 3rd 2016 at 8:59:04 PM

I can't help but feel voting/not voting for a candidate based on one very particular issue or, in this case, legislation, is very short-sighted. Whoever wins is going to be our President for at least four years, barring impeachment or death. Can any one piece of legislature be so dangerous as to justify supporting as inherently unfit a candidate as Donald Trump? Particularly when the significantly more competent opposition front runner is merely a "might" sign it and the next one down is a "definitely won't" (correct me if I'm wrong here)?

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#120933: May 3rd 2016 at 9:02:00 PM

It wouldn't just be Canada, Japan and South Korea would go
Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia and New Zealand would also go. (Sorry, don't know how to do the quote boxes on here)

Edit: Thanks Krieger. Malaysia would go too.

edited 3rd May '16 9:13:51 PM by Bat178

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#120934: May 3rd 2016 at 9:04:08 PM

[up][[quoteblock]] and [[/quoteblock]]

A demonstration

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#120935: May 3rd 2016 at 9:07:56 PM

It very much depends the nature of the bill. If it's one that blatantly is racist, then that's a good enough reason. Lesser bills that are more annoying than outright horrid is another thing. TPP is pretty dumb, but not as bad as what Trump would do.

As a person who makes fanworks often, TPP would be a really bad thing for me. But there's also a point where one has to tolerate some stupidity so they can avoid actual problems. Like Trump's major racism issues.

Shadow?
Imca (Veteran)
#120936: May 3rd 2016 at 9:12:06 PM

TPP has already been signed into law, as of febuary 4th 2016, so its too late for it to mater any way Nerv.

Beyond that it was mostly backed by repubs.... soooo

edited 3rd May '16 9:15:14 PM by Imca

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#120937: May 3rd 2016 at 9:15:16 PM

[up] Can't it be revoked? I know that happened with Prohibition.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120938: May 3rd 2016 at 9:15:25 PM

Can any one piece of legislature be so dangerous as to justify supporting as inherently unfit a candidate as Donald Trump?
Trump's worse in the short run but Democrats and their Trade Deals have an idiotically long history of pretty much causing a lot of the conditions for Trump-esque politics. Basically deals like the TPP keep causing people to lose jobs faster along side increasing automation, which leads to anti-establishment politics and fascism looking shiny and inviting and friendly.

No. It. Isn't. Hillary. Is. Not. The. Antichrist. She. Will. Not. Run. The. Country. Into. The. Ground.
Just more DNC Oligarchy, maybe more brazenly. And the hawk-ish-ness. But not into the ground. Directly.

At least not by intention other than repeating the shit during the 90s that probably lead to the popping of the internet bubble and generally helped feed 2008 by general apathy of failing to actually enforce Anti-Trust laws among other things. New Democrat/Neo Liberals like Hillary won't intentionally run the place into the ground out of malice, just poor foresight at the belief of self superiority and the virtue of Technocrats being better than Democracy as a whole.

Why? Forget calling it a single issue, it's a single piece of legislation. It's not going to suddenly destroy all of the internet and send us back into the Dark Ages.
My issue with it is that major power players in the Dems (including Obama) keep wanting to pass the damn thing despite their constituencies outside of The Village (D.C.) keep telling them "No. This is an awful idea and voters don't like it."

TPP has already been signed into law, as of febuary 4th 2016, so its too late for it to mater any way Nerv.
Yes/No.

"The agreement will enter into force after ratification by all signatories, if this occurs within two years. If the agreement is not ratified by all before 4 February 2018, it will enter into force after ratification by at least 6 states which together have a GDP of more than 85% of the GDP of all signatories."

The deal has failed to be ratified yet, I believe. It's been signed, but not ratified (which means it's been properly authorized by the governments in question, and it's a growing frustration issue for voters, so expect pushes against it when the government announces it'll be voting on it.

edited 3rd May '16 9:20:33 PM by PotatoesRock

Imca (Veteran)
#120939: May 3rd 2016 at 9:17:39 PM

[up][up] In theroy? Yes.

In practice? No, a bill like that is never getting revoked.

[up] Its already been pased, and was backed mostly by republicians, not dems, I even linked a senate voting map.

edited 3rd May '16 9:19:02 PM by Imca

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120940: May 3rd 2016 at 9:22:59 PM

That's Trade Promotion Authority.

That just means the President was given executive authority to streamline finalizing the negotiations of the deal, so when it is brought to ratification vote (this Summer/Lame Duck session), it's an yes-no vote, with no ability of Congress to demand further revisions to the negotiations.

It was signed in February by the Negotiators, but it has not been ratified. Ratification is the point of passing that you're concerned with.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120941: May 3rd 2016 at 9:23:29 PM

Prohibition and the act that revoked it were both constitutional amendments. And it was disastrously and obviously bad. Most people aren't going to be aware of what the TPP does in their daily lives.

I'll believe the TPP has an effect on fanworks when people start trying to take down AO 3. I really doubt that the TPP is going to destroy fanworks as a thing happening on the internet.

And again, to make this the single thing you vote on, when there's so much else that's blatantly terrible about one candidate and pretty damn good about the other is short sighted in the extreme. I mean, really, how important is the TPP compared to the fact that one of the candidates wants to ban citizen from returning to the country because they're Muslim or Arabic?

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#120942: May 3rd 2016 at 9:24:33 PM

TPP has already been signed into law, as of febuary 4th 2016, so its too late for it to mater any way Nerv.

It still has to be ratified by the Senate. Just like every other treaty.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#120943: May 3rd 2016 at 9:24:49 PM

I spend most of my time on the internet on Deviantart, which will most likely be destroyed if the TPP passes, and is the main reason why I am so against the TPP. Most of my friends there don't have social media accounts and I refuse to use social media anyways, so it's a huge problem for me and my buddies if it gets passed.

edited 3rd May '16 9:57:44 PM by Bat178

Imca (Veteran)
#120944: May 3rd 2016 at 9:28:07 PM

[up][up] & [up][up][up][up] Its still slated to be done and overwith before the next president can take over which kinda defeats the point on banking on them.

Either this summer, or during the lame duck season.

[up] Ehhhh, probaly not, even if it does pass, most fanworks are already illegal.

Legality is one thing, enforcmennt another.

If some one wanted too they could probaly already try claiming that your fan work deminishes there products value either bey competing with it, or having lower quality.

But thats too much work to do with every thing, and nothing will change on that front with TPP.

edited 3rd May '16 9:31:33 PM by Imca

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#120945: May 3rd 2016 at 9:34:41 PM

[up][up]You are willing to let thousands if not millions of people get stripped of their civil rights to draw fanarts?

edited 3rd May '16 9:36:18 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#120946: May 3rd 2016 at 9:35:33 PM

[up][up] Obama has been trying to get it ratified for months now. He still hasn't made any headway.

Trump, Sanders, Cruz, Reid, and Schumer are all against it. Even Hillary is distancing herself from it.

[up] Damn right!

edited 3rd May '16 9:36:45 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120947: May 3rd 2016 at 9:37:27 PM

Bar public pressure to kick it down the road or Mitch "Yertle the Turtle" Mc Connell goes "A deal this important should be the decision of the next president".

And there's no guarantee it will pass, a growing number of Democrats and Republicans have their consistuents against it, and Swing State Senators might not want to hedge their bets on a bill that's been made toxic in the public eye.

With regards to Fanworks and the like, the TPP is mostly to force Fair Use IP laws to match the United States (which allow Deviant Art to function), the main concern you're worried about is probably ISP liability, but that's against based probably on Judicial interpretation of the law regarding reasonable deniability.

It's probably going to be a lousy deal that costs you and family members jobs potentially with more outsourcing to Vietnam, but it's probably not going to Death Star the internet.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#120948: May 3rd 2016 at 9:40:00 PM

[up][up][up] I think you are responding to the wrong person. I said that I use Deviantart all the time and most of my friends are there, so I'm against the TPP. Don't know if it'll effect Pixiv too, since Japan hasn't signed the TPP.

edited 3rd May '16 9:40:29 PM by Bat178

Imca (Veteran)
#120949: May 3rd 2016 at 9:40:10 PM

Slightly diffrent topic then the TPP....

But what are the odds the GOP WONT nominate Trump?

It is well within the party rights to ingnore the primary resaults, and they have done so twice before, is there any significant posibility that this could be a third?

Or has the mass adoption of media made that a worse option then loosing the moderates?

[up] We already have worse laws, Pixiv wont get hit.

edited 3rd May '16 9:40:50 PM by Imca

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120950: May 3rd 2016 at 9:42:18 PM

Mass Media and basically all the Tom-Dick-Harry consultants are flinging themselves at Trump like smitten teenagers, in hope they'll be able to make big bucks.

The New Barry Goldwater has arrived. Expect Trump politics to be normalized soon, as well.

Japan hasn't signed the TPP
It's been signed by the Japanese Negotiator, it's just not been ratified by the Diet.

edited 3rd May '16 9:43:54 PM by PotatoesRock


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