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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120576: Apr 30th 2016 at 1:41:02 AM

So Obama wants to push the TPP even if nobody likes it? Why he be Cruzing like that?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#120577: Apr 30th 2016 at 1:47:26 AM

[up]

Worlds largest free trade area, that leaves out China. A very powerful economic bloc in Asia to counter them.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120578: Apr 30th 2016 at 1:49:13 AM

That's OK, but we all know that's not the part people have a problem with.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120579: Apr 30th 2016 at 3:25:39 AM

It's the bloc domination to force China to play hardball for one.

But also Obama is a Neo Liberal, and Neo Liberal Democrats are convinced of the virtue of trade deals. Trade deals are always good, despite their toxic side effects. They don't get why people don't want more trade deals.

He sees the TPP and TIPP are ultimately beneficial for people's life quality both home and abroad. It restrains China. It turns most of the Western World into a giant united trade bloc that can put pressure on 'rogue' nations like China and Russia who don't play nice, and it uplifts the poor in foreign nations.

Based on comments by Kerry, apparently Obama is convinced the deals are a race-to-the-top that will help everyone involved, and wants it as his list of what he sees as positive achievements.

Also, Based on the White House Website he views it as allowing the U.S. to be able to write the rules of trade across the board, essentially, thus allowing Americans to support higher paying jobs at home by selling more abroad, thus strengthening the Middle Class.

Now why he doesn't react on the internet party? Probably doesn't expect anything to come of it.

edited 30th Apr '16 3:28:24 AM by PotatoesRock

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120580: Apr 30th 2016 at 3:33:52 AM

These arguments are not meritless. But the price to pay is far too high. Also, the thing about bad trade deals is that fixing issues with them is nearly impossible to do. So I'd still recommend to oppose them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120581: Apr 30th 2016 at 3:39:56 AM

Yeah I've never seen why the deals are apparently bad for the US, eyre about forcing existing US law on everyone else aren't they? Now why on earth anyone would sign up to that I don't know, but it'd be good for the US.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120582: Apr 30th 2016 at 4:50:26 AM

(Richard Mayhew) Entrenching the ACA

It has a virulently anti-Obamacare governor and a political configuration that is not particularly supportive of broad based social welfare programs. And yet Obamacare survives. It takes a few punches as Kynect has shut down but the core functionality transfers to Healthcare.gov. The Medicaid Expansion is fundamentally intact even as Governor Bevin makes waves at seeking a harsh, punitive and counter-productive 1115 waiver.

Kentucky can do marginally dumb things that makes Obamacare work less well and reach fewer people but the Kentucky political establishment is unwilling and unable to kill implementation in their state because it costs too damn much.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#120583: Apr 30th 2016 at 5:21:26 AM

[up][up]

They sign up since the US is the world's only superpower. Refusing might have drastic consequences.

edited 30th Apr '16 5:21:35 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#120584: Apr 30th 2016 at 8:12:00 AM

@Septimus: I think Trump has pretty much accepted that the uncommitted are committed to opposing him (because most of them are - they're superdelegates). His only chance is to win the nomination by getting a majority through pledged delegates.

Like I said, I doubt that faithless delegates (AKA the Cruz plants) will knock him off, though I suppose it's possible if it goes right down to the wire.

@Silasw: They have benefits for the US. The toxic part to the netroots is that it's another backdoor SOPA, and we've made our position on that so abundantly clear that Congress has actually listened.

edited 30th Apr '16 8:14:15 AM by Ramidel

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120585: Apr 30th 2016 at 8:15:03 AM

It's not at all a given at all that all uncommitted delegates will not support Trump. Pennsylvania's uncommitted delegates will probably in part support him seeing as he did carry the state in the primary. The question is more of "how many".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#120586: Apr 30th 2016 at 8:27:22 AM

The problem is you run into the same thing as the Democrats would if you have a coup by uncommitted delegates, sharp base revolt and a shitshow all the way to November.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120587: Apr 30th 2016 at 8:49:42 AM

Depends on the candidate, mind you. Cruz has been favoured in the "uncommitted delegate primary" and he'd probably not engender a major revolt of the base.

Hardcore base, that is, by all accounts Cruz has no appeal outside of that, and even with Hillary being only a moderately strong candidate he's not likely to perform well in any swing state.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#120588: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:13:21 AM

Yeah, and the reason why China can so easily reject these bad trade deals is because China can actually hit the US where it hurts... In the wallet. China is extremely powerful as an economic power and there is not much the US can do about it.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#120589: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:15:27 AM

The amount of power China has over us is minuscule. Their whole economy is built around serving us and we can easily just move our cheap manufacturing elsewhere. In fact we already are.

They need us far more than we need them.

Oh really when?
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#120590: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:47:18 AM

No... As consumers. No company is going to cut out the most populated nation on Earth without a very damn good reason, especially when the mentality of many companies are profit above everything else.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#120591: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:50:20 AM

They consume Hollywood movies but not much else. Copyright laws don't mean shit to them so they'll just churn out cheap copies of anything we try to sell over there. Purses, cars, phones, television sets, bikes, shoes, watches. Anything.

There's no point in trying to sell anything there on a consumer level. You'll always be undercut and undersold and there's nothing to do about it.

edited 30th Apr '16 10:51:29 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#120592: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:55:29 AM

[up]

There's no point in trying to sell anything there on a consumer level. You'll always be undercut and undersold and there's nothing to do about it.

What if China becomes too expensive, since costs are indeed rising there? You do know that some manufacturing is moving to Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand from China?

And then what happens to China? You of all people should know... smile

edited 30th Apr '16 10:57:33 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#120593: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:58:01 AM

I know, I just said that we're doing just that. That doesn't change the fact that you're not gonna be able to compete with their domestic production when it comes to consumer level goods. We won't be able to do that for a long time.

Provided of course the modern China lasts that long.

Oh really when?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#120594: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:58:06 AM

Yeah China is becoming a victim of its own success, much like the US did.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#120595: Apr 30th 2016 at 10:58:56 AM

Economics thread is probably a better place for this line of discussion.

These are not the U.S. politics you are looking for. Move along.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#120596: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:21:17 AM

[up][up] ...and like Britain before that...

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120597: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:47:26 AM

Surprises and non-Surprises on the campaign trail in California:

John Kasich: People "probably" born gay - he's said some more things there.

Donald Trump blasts California protesters as "thugs and criminals" - nothing's really changed here since Vermont or Chicago.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#120598: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:47:40 AM

I just ran into a booth of Bernie volunteers. I am amazed at how they think he can honestly win 80% of the remaining delegates. On the other hand, at least it made it easy for me to get a registration form so I can switch my party to Republican and help stop Trump.

edited 30th Apr '16 11:53:33 AM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120599: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:54:14 AM

In favour of Cruz?!

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120600: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:55:05 AM

Trump being the nominee is a virtual certainty at this point. Even if there's a brokered convention the individual votes don't matter in that scenario.


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