Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It's the bloc domination to force China to play hardball for one.
But also Obama is a Neo Liberal, and Neo Liberal Democrats are convinced of the virtue of trade deals. Trade deals are always good, despite their toxic side effects. They don't get why people don't want more trade deals.
He sees the TPP and TIPP are ultimately beneficial for people's life quality both home and abroad. It restrains China. It turns most of the Western World into a giant united trade bloc that can put pressure on 'rogue' nations like China and Russia who don't play nice, and it uplifts the poor in foreign nations.
Based on comments by Kerry
, apparently Obama is convinced the deals are a race-to-the-top that will help everyone involved, and wants it as his list of what he sees as positive achievements.
Also, Based on the White House Website
he views it as allowing the U.S. to be able to write the rules of trade across the board, essentially, thus allowing Americans to support higher paying jobs at home by selling more abroad, thus strengthening the Middle Class.
Now why he doesn't react on the internet party? Probably doesn't expect anything to come of it.
edited 30th Apr '16 3:28:24 AM by PotatoesRock
These arguments are not meritless. But the price to pay is far too high. Also, the thing about bad trade deals is that fixing issues with them is nearly impossible to do. So I'd still recommend to oppose them.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanYeah I've never seen why the deals are apparently bad for the US, eyre about forcing existing US law on everyone else aren't they? Now why on earth anyone would sign up to that I don't know, but it'd be good for the US.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran(Richard Mayhew) Entrenching the ACA
Kentucky can do marginally dumb things that makes Obamacare work less well and reach fewer people but the Kentucky political establishment is unwilling and unable to kill implementation in their state because it costs too damn much.
@Septimus: I think Trump has pretty much accepted that the uncommitted are committed to opposing him (because most of them are - they're superdelegates). His only chance is to win the nomination by getting a majority through pledged delegates.
Like I said, I doubt that faithless delegates (AKA the Cruz plants) will knock him off, though I suppose it's possible if it goes right down to the wire.
@Silasw: They have benefits for the US. The toxic part to the netroots is that it's another backdoor SOPA, and we've made our position on that so abundantly clear that Congress has actually listened.
edited 30th Apr '16 8:14:15 AM by Ramidel
It's not at all a given at all that all uncommitted delegates will not support Trump. Pennsylvania's uncommitted delegates will probably in part support him seeing as he did carry the state in the primary. The question is more of "how many".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanDepends on the candidate, mind you. Cruz has been favoured in the "uncommitted delegate primary" and he'd probably not engender a major revolt of the base.
Hardcore base, that is, by all accounts Cruz has no appeal outside of that, and even with Hillary being only a moderately strong candidate he's not likely to perform well in any swing state.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanYeah, and the reason why China can so easily reject these bad trade deals is because China can actually hit the US where it hurts... In the wallet. China is extremely powerful as an economic power and there is not much the US can do about it.
Wizard Needs Food BadlyNo... As consumers. No company is going to cut out the most populated nation on Earth without a very damn good reason, especially when the mentality of many companies are profit above everything else.
Wizard Needs Food BadlyThey consume Hollywood movies but not much else. Copyright laws don't mean shit to them so they'll just churn out cheap copies of anything we try to sell over there. Purses, cars, phones, television sets, bikes, shoes, watches. Anything.
There's no point in trying to sell anything there on a consumer level. You'll always be undercut and undersold and there's nothing to do about it.
edited 30th Apr '16 10:51:29 AM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?
What if China becomes too expensive, since costs are indeed rising there? You do know that some manufacturing is moving to Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand from China?
And then what happens to China? You of all people should know...
edited 30th Apr '16 10:57:33 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling OnI know, I just said that we're doing just that. That doesn't change the fact that you're not gonna be able to compete with their domestic production when it comes to consumer level goods. We won't be able to do that for a long time.
Provided of course the modern China lasts that long.
Oh really when?Economics thread is probably a better place for this line of discussion.
These are not the U.S. politics you are looking for. Move along.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)Surprises and non-Surprises on the campaign trail in California:
John Kasich: People "probably" born gay
- he's said some more things there.
Donald Trump blasts California protesters as "thugs and criminals"
- nothing's really changed here since Vermont or Chicago.
I just ran into a booth of Bernie volunteers. I am amazed at how they think he can honestly win 80% of the remaining delegates. On the other hand, at least it made it easy for me to get a registration form so I can switch my party to Republican and help stop Trump.
edited 30th Apr '16 11:53:33 AM by storyyeller
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

So Obama wants to push the TPP even if nobody likes it? Why he be Cruzing like that?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.