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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120451: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:12:23 PM

Given the toxic "men can't be raped" idea I'd say they probably wouldn't have made a different decision. Getting the law to punish sexual assault and rape is hard all around. And it's just disgusting that they're giving a free pass to this kind of behavior. Someone being drunk and passed out is not a free "You can be an abusive asshole" pass. I mean fucking seriously, someone's passed out explicitly cannot give fucking consent.

edited 28th Apr '16 2:13:06 PM by AceofSpades

tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
#120452: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:14:16 PM

Ok, what in the actual fuck, Oklahoma?!

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120453: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:14:36 PM

Seems like a hole in the law? That intoxication does constitute a gap that no law yet covers?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#120454: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:17:25 PM

[up]

From the sound of it, I think the court (which voted unanimously, by the by) focused on the "forcible" portion of it in regards to intoxication-rape.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120455: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:59:27 PM

There are several courts in the US that have ruled that someone who's intoxicated can't give meaningful consent. Which is part of why this ruling is so disgusting.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#120456: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:11:28 PM

That is just disgusting, on so many levels...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120458: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:45:50 PM

Yeah the rape things seems to basically say that lack of consent isn't what makes rape rape, but force is what makes it rape, which is fucked up in so many ways.

As for how it would go it if was male on male, it wouldn't even have gotten that far, it wasn't that long ago that under US law a women couldn't rape a man, as in it legally wouldn't be rape.

edited 28th Apr '16 3:47:44 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#120459: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:49:02 PM

Seems like a hole in the law? That intoxication does constitute a gap that no law yet covers?

That seems to be the case, yeah (a specific gap in Oklahoma state law involves intoxication and oral sex). Legal experts seem to agree that the fault in this ruling is legislative, not judicial.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120460: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:49:45 PM

I'm baffled by the idea doing something to someone who's fucking unconscious isn't somehow "forceable".

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120461: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:52:06 PM

The "logic", such as it is, is that consent is implied by getting drunk/drugged in the first place. That is, if you drink alcohol to unconsciousness, you're putting an, "It's okay to have sex with me" sign on yourself.

It's not usually phrased that way, though; rather, it's, "You should have known what would happen," placing responsibility on the victim not to put themselves into a situation where someone might mistake their incapacitation for consent.

edited 28th Apr '16 3:53:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120462: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:57:01 PM

Is that it? I figured that it was that the law didn't include anything about consent and force in the form of fighting/attacking a person had to be used for it to count as rape.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#120463: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:29:54 PM

@Ace: "Forcible" and "nonconsensual" are two different things in law. (IANAL, in case it has to be said.) Forcible rape occurs when either force is used to commit the sexual assault, or when force or the threat of force is used to secure compliance (and sometimes the latter case doesn't count, depending on how archaic the law is).

Then there's all other kinds of rape, where force was not used but the victim either did not consent, or as a matter of law was unable to consent. This includes rape of a sleeping victim, an intoxicated victim, or an underage victim. Usually, the penalty for forcible rape is higher than the penalty for other nonconsensual situations.

@Fighteer: No, the logic is probably that the laws were written before the '70s, and the idea that intoxicated consent was not consent was not in the zeitgeist at the time. Oklahoma simply hasn't modernized their laws; welcome to the Deep South.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120464: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:37:57 PM

The idea that someone would have sex with a drunk person still baffles me. Why even take the risk?

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#120465: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:45:12 PM

Because they're probably drunk, too.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120466: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:47:45 PM

If you can't avoid being a giant asshole while drunk you shouldn't drink.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120467: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:58:00 PM

[up]You realize that that's literally the exact same logic that people use for victim blaming people who get raped while they're drunk, right?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120469: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:01:54 PM

[up][up]I'm well aware. The difference is that the rapist is the aggressor and not the victim. It's no different from a DUI in my mind. If you can't avoid committing crimes while drunk then you shouldn't drink.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120470: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:05:36 PM

Hell it's not that hard, as a drunk, horny, 13 year old, with someone vigorously consenting to me I could still go "no I'd be taking advantage of her current emotional situation".

Though honestly drink sex is fine if you either get consent before getting drunk or don't get so drunk that you couldn't consent. Passed out drunk is obviously beyond the point of being able to consent though.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120471: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:06:26 PM

I still think it's a bad idea unless you're in an established relationship with the person.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120472: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:21:38 PM

Oh true, though even then red flags like them going "if I get more drunk nobody have sex with me" or you spiking their drink should give away that there's no consent.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120473: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:39:14 PM

I'm well aware. The difference is that the rapist is the aggressor and not the victim
Either being drunk makes you less responsible for your actions, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

And since someone's going to bring it up unless I mention it first, here's the big ol' disclaimer: click to expand 

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120474: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:51:20 PM

To hop in

You realize that that's literally the exact same logic that people use for victim blaming people who get raped while they're drunk, right?

Nope it's not, the logic behind victim blaming is that being drunk makes you responsible for the actions of others, which is stupid.

Being drunk makes you partially less responsible for your own actions, but it doesn't effect how responsible others are for their actions.

Which you know and included in your disclaimer, but I figured I'd point it out for everyone who's not you.

edited 28th Apr '16 5:52:39 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#120475: Apr 28th 2016 at 6:09:51 PM

Ronald Reagan’s family is firing back against Will Ferrell’s plans to portray the president during his battle with Alzheimer’s disease in a new comedy.

Dear god, I'm actually agreeing with Micheal Reagan.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.

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