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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120351: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:26:32 PM

And you've seem to gone into full on splitting the country up rather than just drawing internal borders.

I was simply heading off the logical extreme, in case anyone invoked the Slippery Slope Fallacy.

"Your idea is bad because it would be divisive and stop these people having to interact with each other."

"That's not a bad thing, in my view."

"But what if they decide they don't want to have anything at all to do with each other any more?"

"Well, good for them. Sometimes you have to know when to end a toxic relationship."

There's nothing arbitrary about putting the people who get along together and those who don't apart. At least there'd be a continuum of society, instead of a sprinkling/patchwork of mutually-opposing cultural enclaves that all have the impression of being the only isolated islands of reason in a sea of madness. That, I find unhealthy.

edited 27th Apr '16 5:29:34 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#120352: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:39:21 PM

wait... is he advocating for the US to break up into several smaller nations? I'm all for that! it'll make retaking the Abandoned Colonies easier!

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#120354: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:45:04 PM

Hillary is not the Supper Hawk some say she is Essentially she is the candidate with he most military interventions under her belt because she is the only candidate who got high up enough to actually be capable of working in foreign policy. The article then goes on to list her various more "dovish" accomplishments, which include opening the talks with Iran. Essentially the difference between her and Obama is that she genuinely believes America can make a difference, though both military and diplomatic power, whereas Obama believes America can do little to influence the "arc of History."

[up][up] Hah I'm pretty sure the Royal Navy can't retake the Falklands if it came down to that now.

edited 27th Apr '16 5:46:57 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#120355: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:49:16 PM

well taking into account the Argentinian government have a fit whenever a (non nuclear armed) submarine comes around the Falklands... and a single Type 45 Destroyer could shoot down the entire Argentinian air force in 20 seconds... I think you're underestimating The Senior Service a bit

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AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120356: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:54:21 PM

WOW, ok. Guys it's seriously stopped being funny when you joke about the US splitting up or whatever.

Handle: I reiterate that the citizens of the US don't actually want this to happen. It's not the people's radar as a problem. It's not the politician's radar as a problem. It's not on the radar. You're ignoring that actual US citizens are not in a position that suggest anyone actually wants to split up or change internal borders. I said this in my last freaking post. And going immediately to the extreme wasn't warranted, I don't think anyone here was going towards secession until you did.

Again, no one in the US actually wants to reorganize our internal borders. It's foolish to suggest it as any sort of solution to our problems. I'm pretty sure that suggesting it to anyone as a practical solution would mostly get you some very strange looks.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120357: Apr 27th 2016 at 5:56:09 PM

@Field: I'm not, I'm just saying I'm not against the idea in principle. I don't advocate for Catalonian or Scottish secession either, but I see where they're coming from. Same for Brexit, though I have nothing but contempt for its advocates.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#120358: Apr 27th 2016 at 6:06:49 PM

I probably should have put joking mode in that comment...

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120359: Apr 27th 2016 at 6:12:55 PM

[up] Or you could stop making bad comedy posts about that are mildly insulting to the US troopers and instead make serious posts...

You know, just an idea.

[up]X3 That was Fry not Handle, you wanna take issue either Fry making insulting jokes aimed at the US go ahead, but don't blame Handle for it, that's Fry's problem.

When Jack has become the serious adult providing real talking points I worry for this thread (well I would but Jack's actually grown a lot and is a very useful contributor, but that fact ruins my joke). tongue

Edit: On the thing Jack posted, Clinton doesn't have to be the biggest hawk in the race to be more of a hawk then people want. Honestly it's not Clinton hawking that worries me, she seems much more willing to tolerate asshole allies then Obama is, and Obama is far to willing to tolerate asshole allies. The Republicans are clearly worse, but that doesn't make Clinton good, just a lesser evil.

edited 27th Apr '16 6:19:07 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120360: Apr 27th 2016 at 6:17:35 PM

[up]I know that wasn't Handle, it was a general address. It's not even the joke itself that annoys me, but how many times people seem inclined to repeat it.

In any case, isn't it often the case that the president simply can't do anything about the asshole allies? Just because it seems like there's a solution doesn't mean it's feasible. And frankly I'm more concerned about how likely any president is to lead us into another war. Clinton seems cautious about that sort of thing, and her attempts at befriending Iran seems to speak well to that. (Not saying that befriending Iran in itself isn't a minefield.)

I mean that as a real question, though. Exactly how much influence/control can and should the president have over allies? How much influence can you have until you're directly interfering with their ability to rule themselves?

edited 27th Apr '16 6:23:07 PM by AceofSpades

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#120361: Apr 27th 2016 at 8:02:44 PM

[up][up] Realpolitik has very little place for morality considerations. If you'd only ever ally with none-asshole allies you'd run out of allies and fast. Oh, and you'd be a hypocrite if your name is the US of A because the States have been plenty assholish in the past.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120362: Apr 27th 2016 at 8:09:43 PM

History doesn't make you a hypocrit, not unless you insist that history is how things should have been.

But yeah realpolitik is a bitch, but the world isn't going to get better unless we freeze out at least some of the assholes, we've managed it in the past, we do enough good over enough time we may eventually end up with a world where you can only ally-non assholes and not have fuck all friends.

edited 28th Apr '16 3:26:47 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#120363: Apr 27th 2016 at 8:46:40 PM

The one thing I don't like about Clinton's foreign policy is her support for Isreal. There's no reason to be so pro-Isreal.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#120364: Apr 27th 2016 at 8:48:33 PM

thirsty is how things should have been.
What does thirst for tea have to do with any of this?
*confusion intensifies*

edited 27th Apr '16 8:48:53 PM by desdendelle

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#120365: Apr 27th 2016 at 8:49:14 PM

[up][up]If status quo with the relationship with Israel is the price to pay for not being essentially isolationist, I'll take it.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:49:35 PM by FFShinra

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#120366: Apr 27th 2016 at 9:10:51 PM

[up][up]Pretty sure that's just a typo for "history," such as one might make with a phone's autocomplete or some such.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120367: Apr 28th 2016 at 2:19:43 AM

[up][up]The Gazans will thank you and your interventionism, I'm sure.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#120368: Apr 28th 2016 at 3:04:14 AM

...did I miss the primary elections in Maryland?

i'm tired, my friend
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#120369: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:45:56 AM

How Donald Trump could beat Hillary Clinton

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#120370: Apr 28th 2016 at 4:51:52 AM

AKA: How media pundits think that it's possible to ignore Trump's racism, because that's never had an effect on how people vote.

You can't go "border walls and Muslim bans aside", if you could you could also go "high negative perception amongst the public aside", for Clinton.

Also I find the idea that youth voters are stupid enough to favour Trump over Clinton if Trump lies enough mildly insulting, younge people are genrally not that stupid.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#120371: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:39:54 AM

[up][up][up]Yes, they were last Tuesday. Trump and Clinton won there.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120372: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:45:46 AM

Young people as a whole despise Trump. They're not as supportive of Clinton as I'd like given she's the likely candidate but they're not going to jump ship to Trump. Any that support him would never have voted for Bernie or Hillary anyway.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#120373: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:50:58 AM

You'd be surprised. There's an overlap between Bernie and Trump supporters. Mostly from the online sorta reddit assholes but it exists.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120374: Apr 28th 2016 at 6:01:38 AM

I thought it was implied that my statements were meant to apply to most Bernie supporters. There will obviously be a few outlier.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#120375: Apr 28th 2016 at 6:07:32 AM

Jump ship to Trump or stay home in protest, the results are the same: Less votes for a Democrat, which gives Trump the edge.


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