TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120301: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:23:56 PM

@Fighteer; I think it would homogenize large sections of the nation, in unhealthy ways. Getting people on the same page, ideally, doesn't involve destroying cultural diversity. Or making sure that certain parts of the population can just outright ignore other parts.

Update: And Cruz is naming Fiorina as his running mate, when he's very much unlikely to win the nomination at this point. This is just full of desperation.

edited 27th Apr '16 1:25:32 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120302: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:26:00 PM

It is my opinion that cultural diversity is strongest when everyone is mixed together to appreciate it. The kind of cultural diversity where Sunni Muslims live in District 5, Hassidic (sp?) Jews live in District 8, and Pentecostal Christians live in District 15 is a recipe for catastrophe. Each group will become more alienated from and hostile to the others over time.

As for Cruz and Fiorina... well. Okay. They deserve each other, I guess...

edited 27th Apr '16 1:29:49 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120303: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:27:59 PM

Remember when we thought that nothing could top the 2012 race? Those were such innocent times.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#120304: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:40:53 PM

2012 was never high stakes though. No one seriously thought Obama was gonna lose reelection.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120305: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:42:51 PM

Except from some Republicans who infatuated themselves into thinking he would.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#120306: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:45:18 PM

I think you mean deluded. Not all of them though. Recall how lot of Republicans didn't bother to run because they knew the game was essentially already lost that cycle and focused on down tickets instead (which is how they managed to increase control of Congress even as they lost the presidency). It's a playbook they look to try again as a lot of them have given up this time too.

edited 27th Apr '16 1:45:51 PM by FFShinra

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120307: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:45:42 PM

Well, I meant solely in terms of the batshit crazy that was going on with the Republicans. And actually I think quite a few people thought Obama stood a chance to lose once it looked like Romney was the challenger.

Ugh listening to this speech is painful.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#120308: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:46:16 PM

Re: Hastert, looking at the Reuters article on it, 15 months is actually longer than the sentence federal prosecutors recommended and seems to also be taking into account Hastert's age and health, as well as the sexual abuse he admitted to but wasn't being charged with (but motivated his actual crime that he was being prosecuted for)

"Ex-House Speaker Hastert gets 15 months, admits sex abuse" - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XO178

edited 27th Apr '16 1:47:48 PM by sgamer82

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#120309: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:46:23 PM

Someone seriously thought Obama would lose to Romney? Who wasn't a republican?

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#120310: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:48:15 PM

Remember when we thought that nothing could top the 2012 race? Those were such innocent times.

OMG HERMAN CAIN QUOTED POKEMON!!! THIS ELECTION IS SO CRAZYY!!!1!

We were so spoiled, and we didn't even know it.

2012 was never high stakes though. No one seriously thought Obama was gonna lose reelection.

Honestly, I don't think Obama was invincible in 2012. The healthcare rollout was a mess and there were even a few times when Romney was polling close to him.

What really screwed the GOP was that all the rising stars were focused on 2016 (which is why the field was so bloated this year) and all the Bush-era figures weren't interested in running (I vividly remember the GOP trying to draft Jeb or Condi).

As result the GOP was left with amateur hour, as guys like Ron Paul, Herman Cain, and Rick Santorum genuinely thought they had a chance at the presidency.

edited 27th Apr '16 2:04:29 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#120311: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:49:37 PM

That brings out the scary possibility that US's 2020 election will somehow be even crazier than this one.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120312: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:50:06 PM

I dunno, your states' borders seem arbitrary and nonsensical. At least make the states big enough so they have comparably-sized economies, and thus similar amounts of power and prestige rather than having so many tiny ones be dismissed as Flyover Country.

Also, you could stand to have less representatives in the House and Senate.

And people could stand to take State-level politics more seriously.

edited 27th Apr '16 1:51:37 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#120313: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:54:45 PM

Yeah, state populations are really inconsistent. I live in a city with a population that's 4x the size of the entire state of Wyoming, and it's not one of the big famous ones you see in all the movies.

And that was before all y'all's stoners started moving here.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120314: Apr 27th 2016 at 1:58:13 PM

The borders aren't magically arbitrary just because you don't know the history behind them. And current population isn't what determined the borders either, what mattered was the fifty thousand or so people living there when the territory was made a state. You're complaining about the vagaries of history that happened after statehood was a fact in that case.

And again, just about no one thinks changing the borders will help anything. Like Fighteer said it's a red herring so I don't know why people keep bringing it up. Changing the borders won't magically solve any of our problems.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120315: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:02:23 PM

One of the biggest issues facing our system is that one-person, one-vote is simply not true, and was designed not to be true in the Constitution itself. The idea that each state gets representation proportionally and equally via the different houses, plus the fact that voting districts need not have the same number of people, means that the actual weight of any given individual's vote can vary widely.

I don't buy into the idea that Montana's voters will be "marginalized" if they don't have more per-capita say than New York's voters. There is nothing democratic about that notion.

edited 27th Apr '16 2:02:47 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120316: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:11:37 PM

What we need is a push or incentive to destroy the process of gerrymandering. I don't pretend to have an answer, but that seems the most pressing problem next to the discriminatory voter ID laws.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120317: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:16:09 PM

Not gerrymandering. Partisan redistricting. These things are not interchangeable, you can have the latter without the former and vice versa. Utah's electoral map is a partisan redistricting, but not a gerrymander. Maryland is both a gerrymander and a partisan redistricting. California has gerrymanders but not partisan redistrictings - mostly. One could say the same thing about Illinois, almost.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120319: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:18:56 PM

Gerrymandering implies that you are creating odd shaped districts, but there are reasons for doing so other than partisanship e.g in order to keep voters with similar interests in the same district.

Partisan redistricting means you have a map whose scope is to give a specific party an advantage. Ohio and Pennsylvania are such redistrictings, as is Maryland.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#120320: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:19:06 PM

A statement from the Sanders campaign, it's being taken to be an admittance that he's not going to get the nomination and is just hanging around to let everyone vote and do his best to push for more leftist policies
Which I can't blame him for. Because the moment he stops being the Gadfly on the Wall, the sooner Hillary is probably going to try and swing to the center and promise Republican-lite/friendly policy points (likely on the Economics end), in an attempt to scoop up disaffected Republican voters turned away from the GOP for allowing Trump to become the nominee. So only giving her 5 to 6 months instead of 7 to 8 months of "moving to the center" is a smart strategy in and of itself.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#120321: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:28:36 PM

In essence, the problem is this.

Let's say you have six people labelled A through F. A, B, D, and E all support Bob. C and F support Alice.

You're trying to split them into two districts. Now, you could split them so that A, B, and C are in one district and D, E, and F are in another. In this model, both districts end up supporting Bob due to a 2/3 majority in each. Bob wins by clear majority.

So instead, you might split them into A, B, and D in one district and C, E, and F in the other. Now Bob gets District 1 with 100% unanimity while Alice gets District 2 with 2/3 majority. Just like that, a purple state has been created out of a place where the population is unambiguously in favor of Bob over Alice.

edited 27th Apr '16 2:29:40 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#120322: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:31:22 PM

The Western states borders were drawn with rulers as quickly as the population in those areas of the frontier reached the required number to call it a state. If that's not an arbitrary and ridiculous way to design a territorial partition, I don't know what is.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120323: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:36:33 PM

How important is gerrymandering to Republican control of the House? Under my argument above, one can say that lack of gerrymandering is why the House is biased against Democrats.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#120324: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:37:28 PM

[up][up]There was a series on the History Channel a couple of years ago called How The States Got Their Shapes. Maybe it would help you to understand the US a bit better.

http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#120325: Apr 27th 2016 at 2:43:33 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.

Total posts: 417,856
Top