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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120126: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:21:19 AM

It would matter because if Sanders (or say Kasich) drop out their delegates need to support someone. By voting on the delegates you can control who that someone will be.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120127: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:23:05 AM

It's irrelevant on the Democrats' side since there are only two candidates, unless a brokered convention goes nuts and nominates Warren or something like that. But it's hard to see how a brokered convention could happen given that, mathematically, a winner must arise from the first ballot.

edited 26th Apr '16 8:39:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120128: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:26:48 AM

So what about the thing where it just asks you to pick the candidate you want? Was that just for counting the popular vote?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120129: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:31:32 AM

I am guessing, in Pennsylvania both Hillary and Sanders need to offer a list of delegates and the "tickets" (=Pennsylvanian delegates that will be sent to the National Convention) are distributed in accordance to vote share. Which of the offered delegates are actually sent is determined by a priority list, in accordance to the numbers of votes each delegate candidate receives.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120130: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:38:33 AM

That makes a certain amount of sense, even if it seems unnecessarily complicated.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120131: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:42:12 AM

Switzerland does use the same system to nominate lawmakers and distribute them among parties. I did also need help from my parents when I first participated in a legislative election, it is not a simple system.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#120132: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:44:03 AM

After watching some John Oliver I must ask: who the fuck thought it's still a good idea to elect judges?

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120133: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:46:37 AM

[up] Well, judges are elected indirectly anyway by requiring legislative confirmation. You can't remove the people from the process entirely, and the people can be bought.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#120134: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:46:58 AM

[up][up][up] You mean the D'Hondt method for allocating seats in a PR Election?

edited 26th Apr '16 8:47:08 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#120135: Apr 26th 2016 at 8:51:05 AM

[up][up] Dude, I'd take the way we have here, not transparent and prone to shady deals as it is, over what you guys over there, because here at least the judges don't have to shake lawyers down for campaign elections or be the target of attack ads. It's just wrong.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120136: Apr 26th 2016 at 9:08:56 AM

After watching some John Oliver I must ask: who the fuck thought it's still a good idea to elect judges?
At the local level, it makes a certain amount of sense — these are people who are presiding over local courts, not setting constitutional precedent. Local judges, along with local government, police departments, and district attorneys, do a lot to set the tone of the local justice system. Let's say, for example that the local mayor decides to crack down on homelessness. They direct the police department to start arresting people for vagrancy or somesuch. Now, municipal police are generally employees of the city or town (and thus, the mayer), but a sheriff's department with an elected sheriff is more independent so has more leeway over whether to actually bother putting resources toward arrest vagrants. Even after the arrest is made, the district attorney has considerable options (they could go for a plea bargain instead of pushing for trial, or just decline to prosecute entirely). But let's say that everyone goes along with it, and people start showing up in court charged with vagrancy. They'd probably be found guilty, but the judge can still decide whether to throw the book at them and give them something like 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine, or sentence them to "time served and get the hell out of my courtroom". With an uncooperative judge that keeps sending people back to the streets as soon as they reach trial, a "let's deal with homelessness by putting all the homeless people in jail" campaign isn't likely to get very far.

That's just an example, of course, but you can see why people would want influence over that sort of thing (especially given that there's not much in the way of separation of powers at the local level). At higher levels, where separation of powers is more prominent and judicial decisions are more important, judges generally are appointed rather than elected.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120138: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:28:14 AM

Yeah, state-level judges definitely shouldn't be elected. I was talking more local and county stuff. (Federal justices, naturally, are right out.)

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#120139: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:34:53 AM

That has more to do with the conflict between federal and state law and the belief that some states hold that state government should hold more power than Washington.

Because, see, it's not just about being bigoted. It's about state's rights. Specifically, the state's self-imposed "right" to ignore federal law and go right on being bigoted despite a Supreme Court ruling saying, "No, seriously, you have to cut that shit out."

Which is almost always what people are talking about when they discuss "state's rights". The federal government is getting more and more progressive and some states want their government to be able to function as a bulkhead to shield them from progressive decisions and/or lawmaking.

Which is an argument we've literally been having for over a century and a half. People have died over this.

edited 26th Apr '16 10:38:47 AM by TobiasDrake

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desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#120140: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:41:33 AM

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Might as well go secede because if the states can just ignore the Federal judiciary, the Federal judiciary is a waste of time and money.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#120141: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:46:29 AM

[up] States tried that, didn't work out

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#120142: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:47:21 AM

They did.

[nja]

edited 26th Apr '16 10:47:32 AM by TobiasDrake

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DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#120144: Apr 26th 2016 at 10:56:29 AM

Yes but it means nothing when the majority party wants it done away with.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120146: Apr 26th 2016 at 11:02:48 AM

Judges being elected has nothing at all to do with states disobeying federal authority, because nothing disallows judges from being elected.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#120147: Apr 26th 2016 at 11:04:35 AM

Pretty much.

The state has no legal ground to stand on by ignoring federal ruling. That they're doing it anyway just demonstrates the utter disdain some states have for the federal government telling them they have to quit being bigoted. It's no coincidence that Alabama is one of the states that we literally had to fight a war against over the issue of the federal government telling them they had to set their slaves free.

The American Civil War never ended. It just became more passive-aggressive.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#120148: Apr 26th 2016 at 11:14:11 AM

In addition, the Supreme Court also ruled that secession is unconstitutional because while superseded by the U.S. Constitution, the Articles of Confederation are referenced by the Constitution. The U.S. Constitution, as stated in the Preamble, was to form a more perfect Union compared to the Articles of Confederation, which was written to form a perpetual Union. Naturally, this was ruled after the American Civil War in response to it.

edited 26th Apr '16 11:27:01 AM by GameGuruGG

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Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#120149: Apr 26th 2016 at 11:23:46 AM

@Jovian: Thing is, "let's solve homelessness by putting all the homeless people in jail" is going to be popular in a lot of parts of the country. Elected judges may be forced to cooperate with that or get voted out. If they're civil servants, it's much harder for legislators to get rid of them.

And if judges are elected by the people, they'll pass the sentences that the people want instead of the sentences that the law requires. That means judges get elected by being "tough on crime," just like district attorneys. All of these offices need to be as insulated as possible from public pressure if they're going to put justice first (especially because when discretion is required, usually it's better to err on the side of mercy).

Alaska uses a hybrid system where judges are nominated by the Judicial Council (which is itself a hybrid group - three attorneys chosen by the bar, three non-attorneys picked by the governor with legislative approval, and the chief justice), appointed by the governor from the Council's picks, and each election includes a recall option from the voters with advice from the Judicial Council, which seems to prevent a lot of America's Craziest Judges crap from happening up here.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120150: Apr 26th 2016 at 11:30:33 AM

Thing is, "let's solve homelessness by putting all the homeless people in jail" is going to be popular in a lot of parts of the country. Elected judges may be forced to cooperate with that or get voted out.
Welcome to democracy. I don't find the argument that people shouldn't be allowed to vote for something because they might vote wrong to be a persuasive argument.

And if judges are elected by the people, they'll pass the sentences that the people want instead of the sentences that the law requires.
They literally can't do that. If the law says that the sentence for a given crime is between one and ten years imprisonment and a judge hands down a sentence of 30 years, that trial is going to appeal faster than you can say "miscarriage of justice" and the judge's ruling will be overturned. What judges can do is decide what sentence within that range is justified in the case at hand, but that's not the same thing as ignoring the law.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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