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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#120001: Apr 25th 2016 at 7:52:07 AM

[up] Or the moderators are heavily biased, and are in on the circlejerk....

But say what you want about Sanders supporters. At least there not Trump supporters.[1]]

edited 25th Apr '16 7:53:58 AM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120002: Apr 25th 2016 at 7:52:36 AM

While that little rant was mean-spirited, it's not at all inconsistent with some of the circle-jerk mentality that goes on in those sub-Reddits.

Hillary is not the Devil Incarnate, and Bernie's economic plan has more holes in it than a stereotypical joke about Swiss cheese. These are facts.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#120003: Apr 25th 2016 at 7:55:29 AM

[up][up] Sanders got about 60% of he millenial vote across all demographics (including minorities and the very wealthy), and upwards of 80% among younger millenials. I think it's more that his most loyal demographic tends to dominate those parts of the Internet.

Edit: Anyway, my point is more that people will say really extreme and inflammatory things in parts of the Internet that aren't heavily moderated.

edited 25th Apr '16 9:37:02 AM by CaptainCapsase

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#120004: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:01:14 AM

[up][up]

advancing the front into TV Tropes
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#120005: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:05:09 AM

You guys realize that that's a variation on a widespread copypasta, right? The original version was making fun of an even older one about atheism. Here's the Know Your Meme entry on it.

[up]That was already posted a couple pages ago, and he straight-up admits that he's not actually going to try to analyze which plan would be more effective at its stated goals. Other sources (like Krugman) have found Bernie's plan to be questionable. The math suggests that his plan as-proposed doesn't actually work. You can argue that a modified plan that actually reflects reality would still be better than the status quo, but the fact that the Sanders campaign is either willing to put out bad numbers to make their plan look better or genuinely doesn't believe that their numbers are bad is not encouraging, because it basically means you have to take your pick between believing he's dishonest or incompetent. (Or denying that his plan has problems, which... well, good luck with that.)

edited 25th Apr '16 8:11:28 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120006: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:16:06 AM

The problem isn't with Sanders' tax plan. That is just a way of generating revenue: the question is what the revenue so-generated would be used for. The problem is that Sanders' assumptions about the cost savings of single-payer healthcare don't even come close to adding up.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Knowlessman hey i dunno, why don't you tell me from Stupidtown, USA (FL) Since: Jun, 2013 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
hey i dunno, why don't you tell me
#120007: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:19:34 AM

Just butting in to relay a funny email my Sociology professor just sent out. Relevant here (not to the current conversation, just the thread and site at large) 'cause, I dunno, tropes in real life?

Kasich and Cruz have negotiated a Survivor-style alliance to defeat Trump. The transition from American politics to reality TV is now complete.

Will Trump be voted off the island? Or will this alliance fail and the other two be forced to leave? Does one have a hidden idol? Whose fire will be extinguished? Stay tuned in this summer and see the action for yourself!

edited 25th Apr '16 8:20:19 AM by Knowlessman

i care but i'm restless, i'm here but i'm really gone, i'm wrong and i'm sorry, baby
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120008: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:21:45 AM

[up] Yeah, the Kasich-Cruz alliance smacks of reality TV shenanigans. I'm going to be pointing and laughing up until November 8th, when I will be biting my nails in hopes that we don't elect Clown-King Trump or God-Emperor Cruz.

It's worth noting that the alliance is a tacit concession by Kasich that he cannot win the nomination. There's no way Cruz would make this deal without some kind of safeguard against Kasich backstabbing him at the convention and making a play for delegates.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:22:54 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#120009: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:22:30 AM

I knew Sanders' plans was bullshit the moment he announced his presidency. Free college? Medicare for All? A tax on speculation?

On what planet does anyone seriously believe this will pass even with a Democratic controlled congress, let alone one dominated by the GOP?

I never understood how the guy took off, and quite honestly the more he stays in, the more I dislike him, because he becoming a thorn in the side of the DNC.

New Survey coming this weekend!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#120010: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:25:22 AM

Wow, I thought this place was more pro-Sanders.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120011: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:25:48 AM

[up][up] Please don't engage in hyperbolic statements like that, even if you are serious.

First, the DNC is hilariously corrupt and we only tolerate it because it's a necessary evil. Second, Sanders' ideas are a desperately needed breath of fresh air on the left that have done the important work of forcing Clinton to market her ideas to an increasingly frustrated progressive populist base.

Now, it's true that Sanders has sold his ideas with a side of magic asterisks: gaps in his economic plans that he has failed to explain. That doesn't mean that they are fundamentally invalid. My beef with Sanders is less about his ideas and more about the practical facts of how he would implement them. That and the minority of his followers who have waged an extremely hostile, "Bernie or Bust" rhetorical war against Clinton supporters.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:25:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#120012: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:25:56 AM

For those not watching Survivor, what is a Survivor-style island alliance?

Edit: Whoops.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:29:25 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120013: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:27:12 AM

[up] It's probably best to let the show's article speak for itself; a detailed explanation would be both off-topic and too time-consuming. In an attempt to briefly summarize and avoid a derail...

In Survivor, a group of telegenic individuals is dropped off in some wilderness setting and told to live off the land for a few weeks. Each "episode", which airs weekly but may actually be only a day or so of real time, requires the contestants to vote for which of their number will be kicked off, and thus lose the chance at the cash prize for winning. This leads to "strategic voting", wherein contestants will team up on those that they believe to have the best chance of winning in order to eliminate them early, then of course backstab each other when it comes down to the finale.

That the Republican nomination process appears to be devolving into a reality TV style gang-up on the leader only serves to accentuate the absurdity that the main reason anyone knows about the front-runner at all is that he's the host of a reality TV series.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:31:04 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#120014: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:30:50 AM

@Jovian: Sanders' tax plan is based on an extremely optimistic projection of the savings from universal healthcare, that much is certainly true, but I don't think it's dishonest to advertise this sort of thing with the best case scenarios, no less dishonest than is the norm for politics.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#120015: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:30:57 AM

[up][up]Ah, so it's like in The Weakest Link when in the penultimate play, they vote off the strongest player to avoid facing them in the finale?

edited 25th Apr '16 8:31:07 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#120016: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:31:34 AM

so it's a bit like politics in Civ 5, just not as backstabby

advancing the front into TV Tropes
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120017: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:32:29 AM

It would still be preferable if Sanders did have a honest plan that does not rely on magic asterisks.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120018: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:33:21 AM

[up][up][up] Yes. Stephen Colbert has taken to running a segment on The Late Show called "The Hungry for Power Games", which riffs on The Hunger Games by firing a cannon to mark the passing of each candidate.

[up][up][up][up] The concern is that Sanders must be doing one of two things: intentionally understating the costs of his plan so as not to alienate voters (which is at least intellectually dishonest) or actually unaware of the true costs (which marks him as ignorant). Also, there is literally zero chance that what he wants could pass Congress.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:36:39 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#120019: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:35:07 AM

[up][up] I agree with that, but I also understand why his plan used the most optimistic projections; the American electorate has an almost psychotic aversion to taxes, and even in his home state, the mere suggestion that elevated taxes on the poor and middle classes were required for the implementation of a single-payer healthcare system in the state was enough to torpedo the plan.

[up] That's an inescapable part of politics; everyone's intellectually dishonest to some extent, and while Sanders is unusually consistent in his rhetoric, even he's told his fair share of bold faced lies and exaggerations.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:37:26 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120020: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:41:16 AM

[W]hile Sanders is unusually consistent in his rhetoric, even he's told his fair share of bold faced lies and exaggerations.
Yes, and this is sort of the Catch-22 for him, given that he's billed himself as unfailingly honest, in contrast with the other candidates. Abandoning that means he has to swim in the same waters, with his every statement sifted and dragged through the mud for potential duplicity.

Anyway, if he can't survive the Democratic primary process, which is by definition far more favorable to him than the general election, how could he imagine that he'd be able to capture the popular vote in November given how the GOP propaganda would tear him apart over his platform?

edited 25th Apr '16 8:42:27 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#120021: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:43:44 AM

[up][up]The freaking country was formed by the dislike of tax. If there is something America hates more than Satan, it would be tax, monarchy, and Communism.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:44:37 AM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#120022: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:46:05 AM

[up][up] Whether or not Sanders would be able to beat a strong GOP candidate is irrelevant, as there is no strong GOP candidate in the running this cycle, and there hasn't been one for quite some time.

Moreover, I'd dispute your argument that the primary is by definition more favorable for him than the general election; you said yourself that the DNC is hopelessly corrupt, and they're the ones who run the primaries.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:49:06 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#120023: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:47:43 AM

[up] Fair enough. Still, the GOP donor class has been quietly shilling Sanders in the hopes that he'll be easier to contest in the general. That should tell you something. And it's impossible to underestimate the ignorance of the American voter when it comes to falling for Trump's reality TV shenanigans.

Unfortunately, one of the reasons why Sanders is doomed to fail is the ignorance of the populace about economic issues. This applies to his own supporters as much as it does to the general public: I've seen nearly as many boneheaded arguments coming from that camp as I have from the other side.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:49:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#120024: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:49:45 AM

Anyway, if he can't survive the Democratic primary process, which is by definition far more favorable to him than the general election

Eh? While it's true that Sanders hasn't been properly on the target of the GOP character assassination machine, most of the results so far indicate that Sanders has more support outside of the Democratic party electorate proper, c.f the role of independent voters. Also, why would the bulk of Hillary voters not vote for him in the general if he were the Democratic candidate?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#120025: Apr 25th 2016 at 8:51:17 AM

[up][up] And I've seen just about as many boneheaded arguments in favor of Clinton (ie calling him a communist), I can pretty much guarantee that; the open Internet tends to bring out that sort of thing in a way that's just not all that visible offline.

edited 25th Apr '16 8:52:40 AM by CaptainCapsase


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