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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119601: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:07:53 AM

[up][up] If no candidate receives a majority of Electoral votes, the House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most Electoral votes.

Which in this case, would be the Republican nominee.

[up] The issue there, as I understand it, is that it isn't firmly established whether the previous house or the new house of representatives gets to elect the President. The only time in history this scenario has happened, not enough seats changed hands for that to be an issue. Even if that isn't contested and it's decided that the new house gets to pick, if the GOP controls the senate, they can elect a vice-President of their choice, and deadlock the house vote for President for as long as they want, which results in the vice-president becoming acting president on inauguration day until the deadlock is resolved. Which it wouldn't be until the GOP either doesn't control enough of the house to force a deadlock or is able to get their choice for President.

The clusterfuck that would result from a third party Sanders COULD result in a democrat dominated senate and house, but if the democrats don't manage to take both, the Republicans in congress get their pick. Even with Trump (and probably Jesse Ventura and maybe even Rand Paul) in the race, it's almost guranteed that one of the top three candidates will be a Republican.

edited 20th Apr '16 10:33:04 AM by CaptainCapsase

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#119602: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:28:17 AM

However, I challenge your idea that opposition to immigration represents a majority view within our voting population.

I did not say that it was a majority view, Fighteer, I was making an if-then used to illustrate/accept the consequences of my argument.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#119603: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:47:15 AM

Harriet Tubman to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $20 bill.

Fixing my mistakes.

edited 20th Apr '16 10:48:51 AM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#119604: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:49:33 AM

Someone is gonna rage over this, but I'm not sure who (though I have a good idea of where they'll be from).

edited 20th Apr '16 10:51:50 AM by PhysicalStamina

i'm tired, my friend
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#119605: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:53:21 AM

[up][up]Good. We really shouldn't be honoring Andrew Jackson in any way.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119606: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:53:26 AM

[up][up][up] Okay.

So regarding that election fraud accusation a while back, there's apparently a huge discrepancy in the exit polling numbers and the actual results of the election, triple the margin of error of the exit polls in fact, I've heard one claim that there's about a 1 in 236,000 chance of the exit polls being so far off the mark.

I've heard some speculate that this may be due to the fact that affidavit ballots haven't been counted yet (and may not ever be counted)

edited 20th Apr '16 11:01:30 AM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#119607: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:54:07 AM

EDIT: Disregard. Good move on the part of the government there.

edited 20th Apr '16 10:55:52 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#119608: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:55:07 AM

Jackson is on the twenty-dollar bill O.o

But yeah, Jackson was an asshole.

edited 20th Apr '16 10:55:33 AM by theLibrarian

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#119609: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:02:31 AM

"The clusterfuck that would result from a third party Sanders COULD result in a democrat dominated senate and house, but if the democrats don't manage to take both, the Republicans in congress get their pick. Even with Trump (and probably Jesse Ventura and maybe even Rand Paul) in the race, it's almost guranteed that one of the top three candidates will be a Republican."

What? It would result in a Republican plurality, owing to the hemorrhaging of left-wing votes, and because of a Republican-controlled Congress, a Republican win.

Honestly, this is why I distrust Bernie. He's a Johnny-come-lately to the Democratic Party, and his supporters are deranged, loose cannons who would rather see Trump be president than Hillary be nominated. And even with a Bernie presidency and a Democratic Congress, they would likely be feuding all the time because Bernie has never really followed the party line. He and his faction are basically a fifth column in the Democratic fold.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:02:50 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119610: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:04:46 AM

[up] This is why I detest the First Past the Post voting (and the two party system which is a natural consequence of FPTP) so much.

You should also realize that it's never been established whether the new house or the old house gets to elect the President if there isn't a majority, and that third party runs after failed primaries tend to result in higher voter turnout, albeit not enough to make up for the votes that would have otherwise gone to one of the major party candidates. That's how a third party candidacy could result in a freakish outcome for the general election, though it's far too big of a risk for me to condone.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:07:23 AM by CaptainCapsase

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#119611: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:04:59 AM

<Bernie supporter

<Would most definitely not want to see Trump elected

You wanna try that again?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#119612: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:06:18 AM

Ok, I don't think its fair to brand Sanders' entire support base, or even a majority of it, as being too bitter to vote for Clinton/closet ring-wing racists who only like Sanders for the socialism/accelerationist lunatics out to trigger a revolution.

The minority that would reject Clinton (whatever the reason) enough to not vote against the GOP is a bit worrying, but its still a minority.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:09:03 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#119613: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:08:50 AM

[up][up]Didn't you say a couple of pages back that if Clinton gets the nomination rather than Sanders, you'll vote Republican?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119614: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:09:50 AM

There is some argument that Sanders supporters who are rejecting Clinton entirely would not have voted even if she ran effectively unopposed, so it's not necessarily a total loss, but it's still discouraging that there exists such polarization within the Democratic Party.

The good news, I suppose, is that if Trump wins on the GOP side, a lot of center-leaning Republicans will vote for Clinton just to deny him the White House.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:10:30 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#119615: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:10:29 AM

"Harriet Tubman to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $20 bill."

You mean replace Andrew Jackson. Hamilton is on the $10. The original plan was to put him and a woman on the $10, but this was protested because the original movement to change the currency specifically wanted Jackson replaced because of his notoriety and the visibility of the $20. A lot of the supporters of the change were actually very much opposed to changing the $10 because Hamilton is a much more respected figure and they felt having two people on one bill was disrespectful to both of them.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#119616: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:15:16 AM

On Republicans wanting to face Sanders: Don't Democrats think the same with Trump?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#119617: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:15:54 AM

Guys, relax. Sanders isn't going to run as a third candidate. He's not an idiot, and he's not going to propel Trump to the White House just to spite Clinton.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#119618: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:17:35 AM

Hamilton was also a figure of integrity who built the US's financial system. The initial call to replace him on the 10 was probably borne out of a cultural obsession with the Presidents than out of a genuine desire to see deserving figures depicted in our currency. That's really the only logical expectation for the initial overlooking of Jackson. I'm glad the Treasury is making the right choice, though.

[up]Why wouldn't he? He was the one who publicly advocated that Obama should face a primary challenger in 2012. He's a fair weather Democrat, and will drop them if it suits him.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:19:26 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119619: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:17:57 AM

[up][up][up] There's empirical evidence to suggest that's the case (virtually every general election poll done to date) with Trump. The assumption that Sanders is unelectable, especially when compared to Cruz or Trump, has no basis in this cycle.

@Fighteer: You have to love the way the two party system forces libertarians and evangelists into the same party if they want to be at all viable, don't you?

edited 20th Apr '16 11:21:11 AM by CaptainCapsase

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#119620: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:20:28 AM

Sanders admittedly polls highly against Trump and Cruz, but if he can't win enough Democratic primary contests to secure the nomination, who the fuck cares?

edited 20th Apr '16 11:20:35 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119621: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:21:52 AM

[up] Because there's always an outside chance of another Clinton scandal, and at this point its still not mathematically impossible for him to win. (though realistically, that would require a scandal of similar magnitude to Bill Clinton's sex scandals)

edited 20th Apr '16 11:22:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#119622: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:22:06 AM

[up][up]This.

Although Sanders has committed to not running 3rd party if he loses; he's not a moron.

[up]One with actual substance? Chances are slim.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:22:35 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119623: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:23:28 AM

[up] How about transcripts of speeches where she makes a "47%" gaffe, or something of the like? It's not likely, but it's not impossible, and in the event that something like that were to happen, it's important for the democrats to have a backup plan, especially if the Republicans manage to field a viable candidate.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:28:19 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119624: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:27:52 AM

It could happen, but whom would it alienate on the Democratic side that hasn't already decided she's criminal scum? Only an actual criminal indictment would sabotage her run at this point, and if that happens between now and July, Sanders would probably step in. If it happens after the nominating convention? I'm not sure we have a precedent.

You have to love the way the two party system forces libertarians and evangelists into the same party if they want to be at all viable, don't you?
Yes, it is rather insane. It's worth pointing out, however, that in a proportional government, libertarians and evangelicals would find themselves marginalized, since there would no longer be a need for the major parties to pander to them for votes. They'd have to coalition with a major, which would be a lot like the current arrangement, only with less ability to wag the dog.

edited 20th Apr '16 11:32:11 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119625: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:33:42 AM

~Crimson Zephyr: No such thing as you say will happen, because a presidential candidacy split does not propagate downballot.

Putting this in bold because it's a very important note - even if a party splits on the presidential level between two candidates, downballot a split is very unlikely to occur as such splits are usually limited to the presidential candidacy. This is incidentally why such splits were always temporary - without congressional representation they don't have staying power.

Or more plainly, a Sanders third party run may split the Democratic vote in the presidential election, but both sides will almost certainly vote for the same congresscritters.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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