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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119526: Apr 20th 2016 at 4:55:27 AM

Also, Fighteer, while there's always been an Anti-Establishment mood, keep in mind the approval rating of Congress is at a historic low. And Trump and Sanders doing as well as they are only happens when there's generally a huge amount of resentment against the system, above normal.
Oh yes, no question that these are true. But the idea that these factors will axiomatically lead to a socialist worker's revolution is baloney. That revolution is just as likely to come from the fascist right, especially as they're the ones stockpiling guns against the Ebil Gubmint.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119527: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:06:36 AM

[up] Now I see where you're dislike for Sanders is coming from; good to see the red scare is alive and well more than twenty years after the breakup of the Soviet Union, because Sanders (and most of his supporters) is a socialist in the same way an apple is an orange. tongue

More seriously, I'm curious whether or not you even consider the way campaign financing works in the United States to be a problem? Because I can't see someone whose benefitted from the current system to the tune of around a billion dollars doing anything to change that; if anything the opposite seems far more likely.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:07:32 AM by CaptainCapsase

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#119528: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:08:08 AM

[up] Then again, outside the US, Sanders isn't even a socialist — he's nearer the centre-left, if anything.

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119529: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:09:14 AM

[up][up]Oh, cut out the hysteria. I was speaking hyperbolically. Sanders' push to have more people involved in politics is admirable, but he's accomplishing that via empowering the same kind of ignorant anger as Trump. I can appreciate the principle but not the results.

The current campaign finance system is broken, but I want it replaced with a system whereby elections are funded from general revenue. I want all donations, large and small, out of the system.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:10:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#119530: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:14:57 AM

Also the revolution requires the highly trained types to get screwed over by the system to get momentum. Doctors, Pharmacists, Pencil Pushers, Middle Management etc. Comfortably paying but not super high paying jobs.

If memory serves, the current recession didn't hit that pay bracket hard enough to give revolution its sea legs, as it were.

Basically you need to get middle management types screwed enough to side with the floor workers/labor unions. Ties into the whole pattern revolt tends to come from a highly trained middle man with a university/college education, or rich yuppie.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:17:07 AM by PotatoesRock

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119531: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:17:19 AM

[up][up] Hysteria? That's essentially the amount that the Clinton's have raised over their career for their political campaigns. The money they've raised for their personal fortune is much smaller, but still more than anyone here will see in their lifetime more likely than not.

I'm sorry, but I can't see why someone who has benefited so much from the current campaign finance system, both in the political world and personally would do anything to address the flaws.

Edit: I should also add that one of the reasons I think this cycle is particularly important is because I suspect both of the parties are likely to shut the door on anti-establishment candidates in future primaries assuming one of them doesn't end up winning the presidency; in that case only the loosing party would do that.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:24:40 AM by CaptainCapsase

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#119532: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:34:10 AM

So I'm hearing stuff about possible election fraud in New York. Suppose Hillary does win the nomination but then she gets charged with this before the election. Will it pass to Sanders or are we looking at a Republican victory in that scenario?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119533: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:37:29 AM

[up] Wait really? Even if there was some genuine election fraud, I doubt it'll be tied back to Clinton; nothing every is, but if that were to happen, well it depends on when it happens. Were it to happen before the convention, it might go to Sanders, or the democrats might just decide to nominate someone who isn't running like they did with McGovern, and tank the inevitable repeat of the DNC riots. As much as that'd harm the image of the party and suppress voter turnout, if Trump or Cruz with a Trump spoiler is what the democrats are facing in November, there's almost no way they can lose.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:41:05 AM by CaptainCapsase

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#119534: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:41:29 AM

I don't know if there's anything substantial. This is an article posted by a woman who called Hillary the devil. I'm just asking a hypothetical.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119535: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:43:24 AM

[up] In what context was that said?

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#119536: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:53:40 AM

There has been a lot of hubub for sometime of people being removed from voter roles and finding out they are not actually registered when they go to vote. It's happened in several states in this contest and honestly it's not an uncommon occurrence in elections past.

That being said, I wonder how much of this is just of new or infrequent voters not understanding what the rules are.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#119537: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:54:04 AM

It was to another person commenting about how they dislike Hillary. Needless to say they're a bit biased so I'm wondering guessing this is something being blown out of proportion.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119538: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:55:48 AM

[up][up] I think another part of it is that generally speaking, late primaries like New York haven't been remotely competitive in decades. That tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#119539: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:59:39 AM

Revolution needs some support from the middle because ultimately you need people who were trained to lead and who understand the old system. Pure peasant revolts tend to go nowhere because nobody really knows what to do aside from smash stuff.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#119540: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:11:38 AM

[up]Which is kind of funny because it does not appear that the "peasantry" finds Sanders to be all that appealing. Or at least a certain segment of it.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119541: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:16:59 AM

[up] That's not particularly surprising to be honest; the poor don't have as much access to the Internet, and Sanders is nothing if not an information age candidate.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:17:27 AM by CaptainCapsase

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#119542: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:18:03 AM

[up]I'm not sure what internet access has to do with that, even if hs appeals broadly to the "tech savvy" millennial generation.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:19:36 AM by Mio

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#119543: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:20:34 AM

[up] Sanders' coverage on televised news is rather unflattering, and much less frequent than coverage of Trump or Clinton. In contrast, he's the darling of pretty much every online exclusive news source.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:20:57 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119544: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:21:33 AM

Sanders' "revolution" is very much a social media phenomenon, and so it tends to be concentrated among the core demographics for social media: non-poor, white, young, and at least somewhat educated. This culture has adopted many of the trappings of hipsterism, where it is considered cool to dis anything that is too "mainstream".

edited 20th Apr '16 6:23:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#119545: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:23:52 AM

The New York primary was a mess, but there is no proof that the mess helped Hillary.

The simple fact is that every poll showed Clinton leading Sanders in New York. So either every pollster is a Hillary shill, or Sanders just wasn't going to win this state.

The fact that this was a closed primary (unlike Michigan) also dashed any hope of a surprise victory.

Joe Biden told CNBC’s John Harwood in an interview out today he’s not “comfortable” with that “goofy Uncle Joe” persona.

You can tell he wishes he had run.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:27:30 AM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#119546: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:33:16 AM

[up]I can't imagine Joe Biden running doing much more then splitting Hillary's vote. We would likely be looking at a similar situation as Trump and the GOP at this point., as far as choosing a candidate goes.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119547: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:37:24 AM

Biden has a sharp political mind and a wealth of experience in many areas of government. We could do a lot worse for a President, but I firmly believe he fell into the general feeling in the Democratic Party that it was time to unite around Hillary in an effort to focus the party's efforts on retaining control of the White House without any potentially damaging primary fights. Sanders, as we know, didn't get that memo.

I still believe that a good primary battle is fundamentally healthy for any party, but we're starting to get to the point in this race where it's becoming less substantive and more acrimonious. All that's going to do is turn voters off from whichever candidate wins.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:40:40 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#119548: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:42:37 AM

In fairness I doubt Sanders was expecting to do this well, he was probably expecting to just stick around for the early period to keep Clinton honest and avoid the entire thing becoming a coronation. I'm still not convinced by the theories that Sanders is going to force a contested convention no matter what, even if he does stick in it for all the states, he may simply hold dropping out until the final state is done and Clinton has her pledged delegate lead totalled up.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#119549: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:45:23 AM

Couldn't Hillary just keep Biden on as Veep?

edited 20th Apr '16 6:45:39 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119550: Apr 20th 2016 at 6:45:59 AM

[up][up]If that's true, his continued perseverance in this race is looking somewhat Quixotic. I see my Facebook feed filled with friends who are lamenting the death of American democracy and the descent into oligarchy and how they'll never support Clinton in a million years because she's a tool of a corrupt system and yadda yadda.

So, tell me again how Sanders' candidacy has improved the health of the party.

[up] Neither candidate has named a potential veep, but Biden may not want the job for another eight years.

edited 20th Apr '16 6:47:24 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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