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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119351: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:28:03 PM

[up] Interesting. Obama's standing behind the Saudis, which I sort of expect from the White House but am wondering about the reasoning behind. The candidates are inviting shit-stirring, which I expect from Sanders but not from Clinton: she was Sec-State and should know better. Trump is doing the stopped-clock-is-right thing.

I just don't see where this "sue the Saudis" thing is expected to go. All it can do is increase international tensions; it's not like we're going to send troops to Riyadh and demand regime change, and if we aren't, who's going to enforce these lawsuits?

edited 18th Apr '16 2:30:26 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#119352: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:34:38 PM

No candidate would want to be accused of supporting the House of Saud over 9/11 victims. Especially not with the New York primary coming up.

The attack ads would write themselves.

edited 18th Apr '16 2:36:55 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119353: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:35:17 PM

And the Saudis are jerks anyway and increasingly a liability.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119354: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:37:15 PM

Oh, I get it. New York primaries, 9/11. Vote pandering. Duh.

Still, it's hot air. Who's going to try to deliver on that promise, and how? If we sue the Saudis, some court says, "Okay," and they say, "Fuck off," what happens then?

edited 18th Apr '16 2:40:52 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#119355: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:46:14 PM

Do they have assets in the US that can be frozen/seized? I'd expect a Clinton flip on this later on, that or she knows it will fail so feels safe supporting it. Clinton's foreign policy is strongly committed to supporting US allies regardless of any authoritarianism they have, she's no Republican (they'd topple regimes and make a mess) but she certainly doesn't seem to have any desire to change the current set of alliances that the US has in the Middle East.

edited 18th Apr '16 2:56:05 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#119356: Apr 18th 2016 at 2:46:43 PM

I'm guessing that Obama doesn't want to piss off the Saudis, as they are part of the anti-ISIS coalition (among other things), but Clinton and Sanders realize that if anyone opposed this bill they would lose the NY primary and open themselves up to GOP attack in the general. Maybe Clinton is hoping that this blows over by the time the general is over?

[up]Basically this.

edited 18th Apr '16 2:47:12 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#119357: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:39:11 PM

Does anyone else find it disturbing how foreign nations can now influence our domestic policies by threatening to do economic damage? I mean it's "only" Saudi Arabia now, but what if China were to demand things of us. I have a feeling that the whole interconnected world thing will come to bite the US in the ass hard.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#119358: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:42:24 PM

We don't have assets in China, they've got no leverage over us.

Again Jack, their entire economy is built around serving us. We can leave anytime we want and watch them die overnight. In fact we are, more and more of our cheap manufacturing is being moved to Vietnam.

edited 18th Apr '16 4:43:14 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#119359: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:42:40 PM

This isn't really a new thing. I also don't see how it's any different from the US imposing economic sanctions on various countries.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119360: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:43:08 PM

[up][up][up] Why? We do it all the time. Threatening to fuck with the economy of other nations is how we do business in the world. That we would be upset when others threaten to do it to us is kind of hypocritical.

edited 18th Apr '16 4:43:17 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#119361: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:47:17 PM

It's not about fairness, it's about how this is bad for the US. It's hard to see American politicians who sign these deals as anything other than traitors selling out the economic wellbeing of their country in exchange for profits for their corporate friends.

Edit: Their's also the fact that countries that gain economic influence here aren't exactly "nice" countries. They are the likes of the Gulf States and China. If Europe gained some leverage over us it would be less of an issue, might even do us a bit of good.

edited 18th Apr '16 4:48:51 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#119362: Apr 18th 2016 at 4:55:44 PM

Everyone throws their economic weight around on the global stage. It's just how the world works. The US has the biggest economy in the world by an enormous margin (about 17 trillion GDP, roughly equivalent to the entire EU combined — China is number two at around 10 trillion) so we're used to winning that fight. When someone else does manage to get the better of us economically, I wouldn't say that it's hypocritical to complain, but it would be hypocrisy to say that it's unfair or shouldn't be allowed.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#119363: Apr 18th 2016 at 5:11:55 PM

Hell for once Trump might be right with his response, to pretty much dare the Saudis to sell their bits, they own them because it makes economic sense for them to own them, not because they wanted to support the US economy, they'd only be hurting themselves probably.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#119364: Apr 18th 2016 at 5:43:30 PM

In many cases Trump seems to be correct in diagnosing the problems that ail America. H Is problem is of course that most of his solutions are batshit crazy and racist.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#119365: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:13:35 PM

I'm not sure that Trump has it right. Remember, it's easier to know that there's a problem than knowing what the problem exactly is, and knowing the problem is easier than knowing the right solution. Trump knows there's a problem - I think we all do - he just hasn't figured out the nature thereof.

Meanwhile, in Utah: the governor is going into full anti-porn mode signing both a more strict anti child-porn law and passing a resolution declaring porn a "health hazard". The article does note that Utah is the porn download capital of the U.S., so keep that in mind. (Especially given how the law holds ISPs potentially accountable, a fact that will no doubt cause a number of them to consider pulling out, given the prior fact.)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#119366: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:18:33 PM

In many cases Trump seems to be correct in diagnosing the problems that ail America.

No. Trump seems to be correct in diagnosing problems that people can easily be polarized with.

That is to say, pointing at China/Russia/The Blacks/The Immigrants as the culprits is a real useful technique that makes people believe they have found the source of economic problems because it presents something the human mind can get behind: A common enemy.

Truth is, socioeconomic problems are a lot more difficult and complicated than "If you capture the enemy's flag three times and bring it to your base before they do, then you win the game"

The fact anyone would defend manufacturing jobs and focus on getting people unskilled jobs instead of educating them to get the skilled jobs the future demands is baffling, but still expected. It has happened before, after all.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#119367: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:44:25 PM

[up][up] Not surprising at all, given it is the mormon state.

While obviously they are entitled to their personal views of sexuality and legitimate criticisms can be made about the porn industry, I think the root of their stance is fundamentally misguided. People are sexual creatures, and they need outlets for those desires. Adopting this fundamentally repressive attitude is not going to fix anything.

Also, the way the resolution is worded makes it very clear that it considers pornography toxic and demeaning to women by default, rather than specifically addressing the common habits of the mainstream porn industry, which is something I wholeheartedly disagree with, because it's utter absolutism that makes no distinctions between different kinds of porn or depictions of sex. It wants a simple solution to a complex problem and I don't see it having any effect.

edited 18th Apr '16 6:49:19 PM by wehrmacht

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#119368: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:44:53 PM

That is to say, pointing at China/Russia/The Blacks/The Immigrants as the culprits is a real useful technique that makes people believe they have found the source of economic problems because it presents something the human mind can get behind: A common enemy.

"He said to us: 'Lift your heads! Be proud to be German! There are devils among us. Communists, Liberals, Jews, Gypsies! Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed.' It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb." — Judgement at Nuremburg

Too much? I apologize...

edited 18th Apr '16 8:09:13 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#119369: Apr 18th 2016 at 6:51:49 PM

The reason Obama's treating the Saudis gently is because the last time they got pissy over something Middle East related the oil embargo took place.

Granted that probably wouldn't have such a bad effect here nowadays considering we now produce a lot more oil for ourselves.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#119370: Apr 18th 2016 at 8:59:02 PM

[up][up]Seeing as "neo-Nazi anime fans" is actually an accurate description of part of his base, I'm not even sure whether "too much" exists in relation to Trump's campaign. Maybe that nude painting of him, I suppose.

[up]I wonder what oil self-reliance would do for the fracking debate, since Keystone has been vetoed.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#119371: Apr 18th 2016 at 9:29:42 PM

Keystone means basically nothing. Also, it was meant to help transport Albertan shale oil, not fracking oil.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119372: Apr 18th 2016 at 10:46:58 PM

I think the main issue with Utah's approach to the pornography issue is that it is amazingly simplistic. You need much more nuanced measures than that, especially since criminal law and liability on its own won't help.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#119373: Apr 19th 2016 at 2:21:06 AM

Re: suing the Saudis, I discussed suing Saudi Arabia for participating in OPEC with my Business Law professor at one point, as OPEC is in fact in violation of US antitrust law (and the doctrine of "state action" doesn't apply to economic business done with the US, such as...selling oil).

However, while he didn't think there was anything that would stop such a suit legally, there's no fucking way that the DOJ would touch a suit like that.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#119375: Apr 19th 2016 at 5:20:25 AM

It is irrelevant and obviously satirical, but if you read French (or have a good page translator), here is the latest article of "our" Onion: Cheered by his supporters, Donald Trump hits Ted Cruz with his penis.


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