TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119076: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:49:41 AM

Depends on which news.

edited 15th Apr '16 6:49:47 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119078: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:54:21 AM

'Swhy I like Rachel Maddow. She's an excellent journalist and is very good about not showing bias between Clinton and Sanders. But really, all media has biases; you have to learn to adjust for them. ThinkProgress is a liberal outlet but they take their journalism very seriously. AddictingInfo is less concerned about the appearance of fairness.

edited 15th Apr '16 6:55:25 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#119079: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:55:30 AM

  • The New Democrats as their era of centrist authority is slowly but surely being chipped away at and Democratic voters keep shifting left.
  • Policy Wonks / Economic Professors, as many researchers and professors think 15 dollar minimum wages are absurd, and potentially severely dangerous to the U.S. economy, and it would be better handled shooting for 10 to 12 dollars. And are increasingly finding themselves ignored by a public that doesn't want "sensible results".

I think the third loser is tied to the second. At least since 1984 and the reelection of Reagan, Democratic politicians have been telling the electorate what was sensible and what wasn't as they ran to the right, and the conservatives turned reactionary and completely lost the plot. A lot of things done during those years that were billed as sensible and small steps came home to roost with disastrous consequences, especially with regards to the social safety net, business, and taxation changes.

Now people are turning their backs on all those "sensible" policies and changes, (lets loosen the rules on Wall St. to make them more innovative, lets crush unions because they just get in the way of getting things done, lets not tax inheritances or stock market gains the same as regular wages because that will get in the way of investment, lets change the rules about what businesses can do and where, it's not like the Chinese can build factories and replace our industrial center after all, etc. etc.) and because they've been told to sit down and shut up while sensible people do the talking for so long, they may wind up ignoring actually sensible people because of their experiences with people who were claiming to be sensible through the last few decades.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119080: Apr 15th 2016 at 6:57:37 AM

because they've been told to sit down and shut up while sensible people do the talking for so long, they may wind up ignoring actually sensible people because of their experiences with people who were claiming to be sensible through the last few decades.
I can definitely agree with this point. The neoliberal turn of Washington over the past few decades has been disastrous for everyone but the rich, and the news media have bought into it, with a few exceptions. It's very difficult for the lay person to figure out which talking head knows what they are talking about when nobody bothers to call them out on their BS.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#119081: Apr 15th 2016 at 7:55:00 AM

I think aiming for a sense of neutrality in my news is why I've focused mostly on Reuters. A lot of other news outlets seem to reference them as their source and I haven't detected any especially strong bias.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#119082: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:00:18 AM

Is there actual major consensus among economists that a 15 dollar minimum isn't viable? Assuming a 49 hour work week, that gives people roughly 35K a year. 35K is probably enough for people to live on in most places (ignoring urban areas with crazy rents), but you're not exactly in the lap of luxury, and that's with clocking in a consistent ten hours every weekday. Is there any particular reason why we don't want businesses to pay their employees at least that much, as opposed to them paying less and then getting government welfare to make up the difference?

I mean, I'm willing to listen to experts, but 35K annually for the average human being putting in full working hours doesn't SOUND like unrealistic hippie nonsense on its face.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#119083: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:06:23 AM

Something I found in my local newspaper:

85 judicial posts remain vacant across the nation Number of Senate confirmations last year was just 17, fewest since 1960 34 jurisdictions now face a ‘judicial emergency’ because of the delay

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/article71418337.html

Is seems like the Senate's lethargy re: judges has been going on longer than I realized, if I'm reading that right.

edited 15th Apr '16 8:11:06 AM by sgamer82

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119084: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:10:36 AM

[up][up]It's not unrealistic; in fact, there is a substantial argument to be made that the minimum wage should be much, much higher — perhaps indexed to the living wage such that nobody who works 40 hours a week should be unable to afford necessities.

When surveying economists, it is important to remember that not all economists are created equal. Specifically, you can find an awful lot of hacks working for places like the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute whose diplomas serve mainly to distract from their true profession: paid shills.

But yes, among those not corrupted by the GOP elite propaganda machine, there is almost universal agreement that raising the minimum wage to $15 (or higher) would have mainly positive macroeconomic effects, with a marginal negative effect on employment derived from the loss in entry-level teenager jobs.

[up] Yes. Suborning the judiciary has been a major (and frequently unnoticed) GOP goal ever since Roe v. Wade, and possibly earlier.

edited 15th Apr '16 9:22:57 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119085: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:20:05 AM

Krugman: Why I Haven't Felt the Bern

In a nutshell, the basis for Sanders' campaign is almost entirely ad hominem attacks.

What you see, on this as on multiple issues, is the casual adoption, with no visible effort to check the premises, of a story line that sounds good. It’s all about the big banks; single-payer is there for the taking if only we want it; government spending will yield huge payoffs — not the more modest payoffs conventional Keynesian analysis suggests; Republican support will vanish if we take on corporate media.

In each case the story runs into big trouble if you do a bit of homework; if not completely wrong, it needs a lot of qualification. But the all-purpose response to anyone who raises questions is that she or he is a member of the establishment, personally corrupt, etc.. Ad hominem attacks aren’t a final line of defense, they’re argument #1.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119086: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:28:16 AM

Actually, that court confirmation thing is not a new practice - one wants to keep these court seats free for the next president (who hopefully is of your party) to fill them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#119087: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:28:19 AM

At the same time though, a lot of businesses will either have to lay people off or increase their prices to make up for the wage shortfall, which seems to be the main obstacle to the wage increase.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119088: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:29:51 AM

There is some research out there that this effect is frequently overridden by the raised purchasing power. People don't just hoard their minimum wage after all. Thus, businesses get more customers and more customers means more money.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119089: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:35:50 AM

Plus not all of a business' costs are in labor. If you increase labor costs by 50% (let's say), that may only represent 20% of the total cost of the business' products. So prices will increase (this is acknowledged) but not by as much as wages. That combined with the increased purchasing power of the business' customer base makes up almost all of the difference.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#119090: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:39:08 AM

[up]X3 Maybe, but I'm sure that the market will manage.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#119091: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:44:38 AM

The Krugman posts pretty much sums up my feelings on Sanders better than I've been able to. I suppose that's why he's a paid columnist and I'm not.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#119092: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:45:03 AM

I think aiming for a sense of neutrality in my news is why I've focused mostly on Reuters. A lot of other news outlets seem to reference them as their source and I haven't detected any especially strong bias.

They're a news agency — selling stories to other sources is what they do, and considering everything, they need to have as little bias as possible.

@ Fighteer: Would you say Foreign news organisations are similarly biased when referring to US news?

edited 15th Apr '16 8:46:52 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#119093: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:48:02 AM

Some more analysis by Nate Silver on the Republican Primary. Strong emphasis on the weird delegate rules that they have in NY and CA.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119094: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:53:16 AM

[up][up] I am not personally familiar with the biases of foreign media, but I would assume they exist; indeed, I've heard lots of stories indicating such. Why do you insist on asking vague questions like that?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#119095: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:54:30 AM

About Sanders idea of single payer reducing health care costs, I believe one of the major issues with that is that we don't pay doctors like Europeans do. I would think that reducing the massive bloat in health care costs in the US would have to address that.

I think that would reduce costs a lot if we did, but I can't imagine it being very popular, even though "free market" economists theoretically agree there should be less protectionism in health care and immigration, and that would drive the costs way down. But you only see those kinds of arguments about poor people, strangely.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119096: Apr 15th 2016 at 8:58:38 AM

Can't pay doctors less unless you control the costs of medical education.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#119098: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:05:34 AM

[up][up] Which means reforming Education. Something like single-payer can't be enacted in isolation.

Why do you insist on asking vague questions like that?

Usually because I'm curious and don't know how to phrase the question.

edited 15th Apr '16 9:06:37 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#119099: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:25:12 AM

Considering that Congress likes gutting education because "teachers are being paid too much" and "kids need to be studying" and the advocacy of standardized testing and Common Core, education reform is going to take a very long time.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#119100: Apr 15th 2016 at 9:40:25 AM

I am continually baffled by the terrible state of the American education system. I get that a disturbing number of people are terrified of critical thinking or any sort of criticism of the country, but you'd think, that at the least, the politicians would want to shake the perception that the US has many of the dumbest people on the planet.


Total posts: 417,856
Top