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pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#118726: Apr 9th 2016 at 9:53:52 PM

In the novel Shogun, we had the following exchange:

Toranaga: "There is no excuse for revolt against a sovereign lord."
Blackthorn: "Unless you win."

In other words, you only get charged with treason if you lose. But if your revolution or secession is successful, you can justify it however you wish.

edited 9th Apr '16 9:58:27 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#118727: Apr 9th 2016 at 9:59:48 PM

[up]Good thing those tax dodging slaveowners had the Frenchies to help them out

Non Indicative Username
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#118728: Apr 9th 2016 at 10:41:07 PM

With secession, I'd argue that it's everyone's right to fight against unjust authority if they don't have another option. However, it is immoral to oppose just authority.

This means that secession will always be illegal, because a just ruler will rightly defend their rule, and an unjust ruler won't care. But theoretically, it can be justified.

Leviticus 19:34
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#118729: Apr 9th 2016 at 10:51:43 PM

Colorado GOP officials are investigating how a tweet was posted to their official account Saturday evening with the #nevertrump hashtag.

The unraveling continues.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#118730: Apr 10th 2016 at 12:04:10 AM

I believe secession in Canada would be legal if it happened. The last time it came up, what basically happened is there was a big Canada wide vote. It was close, but the slim majority decided to keep the country together.

Because those pushing for it really didn't want a split to actually happen, the vote never came up again.

Also, when Canada split from England, that was totally legal as well. We asked for permission, I believe.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#118731: Apr 10th 2016 at 4:50:31 AM

what the hell is it with some people and breaking countries up? we have the SNP over here and... well I'm not certain what they're called in Canada but I expect they're French...

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#118733: Apr 10th 2016 at 4:58:22 AM

[up][up]

People like deciding their own affairs.

edited 10th Apr '16 4:58:33 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#118734: Apr 10th 2016 at 5:06:07 AM

well normally it's that they don't like equal representation and want it so their voices are the most important, like the SNP

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#118735: Apr 10th 2016 at 6:56:19 AM

[up]

Gee, that's a helpful and insightful summary of the reasons behind the rise of Scottish nationalism and regionalism in the United Kingdom.

Oh no wait, it's a cretinous oversimplification.


Bernie has won a state with fewer residents than my hometown in Scotland, slashing Clinton's delegate lead from 212 to 212.

edited 10th Apr '16 7:10:42 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#118736: Apr 10th 2016 at 8:58:08 AM

Listen. Independence movements are, above all else, about respect. Of which Scotland gets none. England's problem has always been that of insufferable condescension.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#118737: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:03:16 AM

England's problem has always been that of insufferable condescension.

No, that's London. The "provinces" outside London get the same treatment.

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#118738: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:23:27 AM

Then how do the Scots know that Edinburgh won't do the same to the rest of the country?

The pattern seems perennial. Paris, Madrid, Stockholm... "Those stuck-up jerks from the Capital treat us like we're beneath them!"

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#118739: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:34:25 AM

[up]

The capital is generally the most important city. It's inevitable.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#118740: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:44:37 AM

Importance need not lead to self-importance.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#118741: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:47:39 AM

No, that's London. The "provinces" outside London get the same treatment.

No that's Westminster, the boroughs outside of Westmisnter and The City get the same treatment.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#118742: Apr 10th 2016 at 9:52:55 AM

And they wonder why all their colonies chose to leave first chance they gotwink

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#118743: Apr 10th 2016 at 10:05:05 AM

I thought secession was about "We make more money than the rest of the entire country, why are we letting them decide what to do with it?"

Of course, that's not supposed to reflect all secession movements, but about enough of them, or why some people (that is, the people with money) would support a secession movement.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#118744: Apr 10th 2016 at 10:17:03 AM

It's certainly true for Catalonia and Scotland.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#118745: Apr 10th 2016 at 10:36:43 AM

[up][up] That's really not true of Quebec. Some of them are "our culture is so awesome/different that we want to leave so we aren't stifled."

Granted, you do get cases like Quebec where one of the parties constantly threatens to leave, but they mostly only use it to get concessions since actually leaving would be a disaster.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#118746: Apr 10th 2016 at 11:35:31 AM

Threatening to leave just to get concessions was the slave states MO during the entire Antebellum period. It got to the point that when the rest of the country finally said no they didn't actually believe they'd go ahead and do it since it was so obviously suicidal.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#118747: Apr 10th 2016 at 11:41:46 AM

Then how do the Scots know that Edinburgh won't do the same to the rest of the country?

Actually, they have that view in the Shetlands, which is historically and culturally closer to Norway then Edinburgh. The Islands only became part of Scotland in 1470.

edited 10th Apr '16 11:42:53 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#118748: Apr 10th 2016 at 11:42:01 AM

[up][up]Pretty much what's happened to Quebec by now. The rest of Canada is kinda just tired of their shit at this point. Even the people in Quebec are tired of their politician's threat to succeed. Quebec separation hasn't been a real serious thing in a decade now.

edited 10th Apr '16 11:42:12 AM by nightwyrm_zero

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#118749: Apr 10th 2016 at 12:01:37 PM

[up][up]Holy shit, you might as well say yesterday!

edited 10th Apr '16 12:01:53 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#118750: Apr 10th 2016 at 12:06:57 PM

If you've ever wondered why talking politics makes people so angry (especially when your friends and relatives have differing political beliefs than you), now you can find out, courtesy of DNews.

TLDW: Partially epinephrine (adrenaline) making you less rational while norepinephrine dulls physical and emotional pain during the moment. Partially our caveman brains trying to sort people into tribes (also our brains trying to make sense of the fact that the familial "tribe" doesn't necessarily correspond to the politics "tribe").

Also, politics can counter racism. Score one for politics.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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