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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#118676: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:29:35 PM

It does for me. Space is our ultimate destiny.

Plus it's cool. And so many technologies are here because of space travel.

Oh really when?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#118677: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:36:42 PM

Space exploration is awesome, for a variety of both practical and ideological reasons, and it's honestly criminal that NASA has been allowed to languish for as long as it has. With uncertain funding (the uncertainty being more important than the level itself — they can adjust their programs to use the budget they have available, but you can't plan anything if you can't trust that your budget won't be slashed in the future) and lack of focus since the space shuttle program ended, they're sort of spinning their wheels. I'd love to see someone make a campaign issue out of it, but the subject pretty much never comes up in political discussions.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#118678: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:46:21 PM

  • 97% Sanders
  • 94% Jill Stein
  • 91% Clinton
  • 82% John McAfee
  • 68% Gary Johnson
  • 41% Cruz
  • 7% Trump

See, this makes me wonder why the bloody hell libertarians and disaffected libertarians like me don't try to form a bloc in the Democratic Party. Aside from, y'know, the fact that identified libertarians tend to be allergic to compromise (as David Brin has repeatedly complained).

edited 9th Apr '16 5:47:39 PM by Ramidel

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#118679: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:47:05 PM

Well, with NASA, I suspect that it's due to it being kind of a bipartisan issue that's not really a part of either party's platform. Since pro-NASA sentiment is spread out between both parties relatively evenly, you can't really use it as a rallying cry for you own party or against the other party. This makes it effectively useless in partisan politics.

Leviticus 19:34
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#118680: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:47:28 PM

Because the American breed of Libertarian is fiercely opposed to progressive ideas. Small government is a means to and end and their end is usually racism and bigotry.

Oh really when?
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#118681: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:48:09 PM

I generally believe in funding science For Science! However, I don't see anything special about space, especially if you want to put boots on the extraterrestrial ground.

There was one thing on that survey I have never heard of. Is the US launching a new trans-oceanic free trade agreement?

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#118682: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:48:51 PM

[up][up]Guess what the Libertarian candidates' position on illegal immigrants is? "Let them in and grant them automatic citizenship."

edited 9th Apr '16 5:49:16 PM by Ramidel

majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#118683: Apr 9th 2016 at 5:59:41 PM

[up][up][up] They did tend to have progressive stances on gay rights issues, though.

Anyway, here's what I got:

98% Sanders

96% Clinton

92% Stein

57% Marc Allan Feldman (libertarian)

39% Gary Johnson (also a libertarian)

17% Trump

10% Cruz

Buncha Sanderistas in here, I guess, clogging up the place with our conspiracy theories and sexism.

Out of curiosity, I checked out issues by ethnicity. Turns out Asians are most likely to have progressive stances, while whites are the most conservative on average.

edited 9th Apr '16 5:59:55 PM by majoraoftime

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#118684: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:01:09 PM

I'd certainly say that calling Libertarianism inherently bigoted is a strawman (even more so than calling Republicans that). Their views are largely along the lines of "everyone should mind their own business", "legalize everything except assault and theft and cut all government programs aside from the ones responsible for those!". If anything, racism is very much against their ideology-as any policies pertaining to race are too restrictive for Libertarianism.

edited 9th Apr '16 6:02:54 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#118685: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:03:48 PM

They're those kinds of people that might think the Articles of Confederation were a good enough constitution.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#118686: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:04:50 PM

[up][up]The issue is that libertarianism in America tends to get tied up with the neo-Klan movements - see, "sovereign citizens." That guy who was mentioned a while back who wanted to arm all the blacks in Ferguson to fight back against the police was stunned when the rest of his militia went "are you crazy? You want to arm black people?"

Libertarian candidates, though, don't seem to be part of that mess - they seem to be professing the academic version.

edited 9th Apr '16 6:05:05 PM by Ramidel

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#118687: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:17:08 PM

In my experience most libertarians are against government regulations because it keeps them from being assholes in some way.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#118688: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:21:29 PM

Yeah, that. [up]

Oh really when?
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#118689: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:22:34 PM

These days, there are so many different flavors of libertarians, many of whom have wildly conflicting ideologies, that the very term "Libertarian" doesn't really mean anything anymore.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#118690: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:23:00 PM

[up][up][up][up]Well, libertarians tend to defend secession as a right, which gives them ties to Confederate apologists, which in turn gives them a link to the KKK. But it's more accurate to say that racists have no better options than to pretend to be libertarians than that libertarians are racist.

edited 9th Apr '16 6:23:10 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118691: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:24:29 PM

Libertarians may not be racist as a necessity, but they tend to oppose attempts to use the State to enforce equality of opportunity, meaning that they are de facto abetting racism. At a certain point, the distinction becomes irrelevant.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#118692: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:25:17 PM

Libertarian policies would make it easier for racists to be open in their discrimination. Can we at least agree on that?

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#118693: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:26:33 PM

See, this makes me wonder why the bloody hell libertarians and disaffected libertarians like me don't try to form a bloc in the Democratic Party. Aside from, y'know, the fact that identified libertarians tend to be allergic to compromise (as David Brin has repeatedly complained).

Well, if you look at the actual statistics on American libertarians, the majority are against gay marriage and are big on anti-immigration.

Not only that, even when you exclude those people, there's a near-absence of "liberaltarians": They don't really seem to care too much as a group about things things they theoretically support which might inspire liberals to sympathize with them.

Now, there are some "liberaltarians" and more consistent libertarians who aren't just bullshit apologists using the word liberty as a smokescreen for prejudice, but they're so few in number an alliance seems at best symbolic.

Ironically, the people most encouraging of an alliance seem to be progressives, even if it's a minority of them, but libertarians as a whole seem to have deliberately shunned grabbing the olive branches out of disdain.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#118694: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:28:10 PM

[up]This basically proves our point. Libertarians don't really care about freedom for all people. They just want the government to stop forcing them to play nice with others.

edited 9th Apr '16 6:28:21 PM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#118696: Apr 9th 2016 at 6:34:10 PM

Someone I know from college who is strongly libertarian is very pro-immigration (and I think actually works as an immigrant-rights attorney) and correspondingly hates Trump. He doesn't like Sanders either but sees him as better than Trump, since Sanders (from his perspective) at least plays within the system.

On the other hand, another libertarian guy (also an attorney) I knew refused to acknowledge that any government regulation could be good (was trying to argue with him that government was on the sign of the angels in terms of net neutrality and food safety standards but he insisted their had to be some evil motive).

Also can't recall specifics but he seemed to be at least borderline racist- the idea that Democrats won minority votes by getting them addicted to government.

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#118697: Apr 9th 2016 at 7:09:40 PM

92% Sanders

89% Clinton

64% Trump

58% Kasich

58% Cruz

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#118698: Apr 9th 2016 at 7:26:53 PM

That test places me as Centrist politically, which reminds me that the RPG Alignment Test assessed me as True Neutral. Coincidence? Or do the tests just ask the same types of questions with different phrasing?

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#118699: Apr 9th 2016 at 7:37:31 PM

Not all Libertarians are racists or assholes, but my Libertarian uncle most definitely is.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#118700: Apr 9th 2016 at 7:56:37 PM

[up][up] If that's "keeping the balance" True Neutral, then it might have something to do with each other. If that's "not anything else" True Neutral, it's probably coincidence.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.

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