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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118476: Apr 7th 2016 at 2:52:31 PM

[up] If I can't have my wish, I would accept that position as a compromise, at least.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#118477: Apr 7th 2016 at 2:53:04 PM

I do think that the Wall Street-Clinton question needs a bit more nuance. It is not proof that she's a WS prostitute or whatever but it does make one wonder why she receives money from them. Is she playing a con on them? Are her policies good but also help WS? Is WS trying to stop Sanders and the GOP madmen? Are they funding her for no good reason at all? Point is, it's not so clear at all.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118478: Apr 7th 2016 at 2:57:24 PM

Nobody gives money to political candidates out of the goodness of their hearts. The idea is that you are giving money to someone whom you hope will do the things you want when they are in office. There is no difference in that respect between a Wall Street bank and your grandmother.

Wall Street people aren't stupid. They cast a very wide net in the hopes that whoever gets elected will be favorable to them. However, if one looks at the distribution of Wall Street contributions, you'll find them tilting heavily toward Republican candidates. Clearly, that means they believe the Republicans are more likely to serve their interests than Democrats.It does not, however, mean that someone who takes money from them is automatically bought and paid for.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#118479: Apr 7th 2016 at 3:04:47 PM

I think reparations are not a great idea in this political climate. I read that a disturbing number of whites believe that minorities benefited from the so called recovery more than whites did. Not true of course, but as long as they believe that, visibly outright giving money to black people would throw fuel on the racism and resentment fire.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#118480: Apr 7th 2016 at 3:06:35 PM

Yeah, I can personally attest to too many people thinking that whites are the ones being oppressed. Claiming things affirmative action, the recent LGBT rights movement, feminism, etc. as proof.

It's all bullshit of course but if reparations were to happen I really wouldn't count out a race war starting.

Oh really when?
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#118481: Apr 7th 2016 at 3:07:39 PM

You don't have to like it or think it's a good idea to accept that it's part of politics and verbally shaming people doesn't do anything.

However, saying you "can't trust Bernie" because he's relying on an emotionally manipulative campaign isn't really any better. That's how political campaigning works, every politician does it, including Hillary.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#118482: Apr 7th 2016 at 3:14:07 PM

The Clinton-Wall Street thing is likely no big conspiracy, and more just. Life happens. Her husband deregulated parts of the banks, via Glass-Stegal (and probably other things). Hillary and her husband are ultimately very likely to be tied into each other, resulting in similar policy (and it was often speculated Hillary was the Karl Rove/Dick Cheney to Bill's Dubya, i.e. she was the 'brains' of the operation)

Democrat aligned Wall Street likely wants status quo on them. Hillary is their status quo candidate. Hillary due to being more involved with the financial sector than Obama, might undo/lax on some of Obama's Wall Street policies, with a scratch my back, I scratch yours set up where if she does, they support Social Justice issues (especially LGBT rights).

They likely expect her to shield them from a lynch mob public. That's. Probably the gist of it.

(Vox) Young Republicans, trending to be more moderate their parents, could be the future of the party, but with so many young people repulsed by Republicans and kept in the camp of Democrats, it makes it difficult for Republican elites to justify a pivot to the center.

(Ezra Klein) Is the media biased against Bernie Sanders?

(Vox) As the 2016 Race rolls on, Obama quietly announces tough new rules against Inversions, on Financial Advising, and very likely to crack down on shell companies.

(Vox) A new Obama rule could save ordinary investors billions in hidden fees (Financial Advisors now have to tell people the best option, not the option that results in best commission).

darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#118483: Apr 7th 2016 at 3:34:08 PM

The Podesta Group outed by Panama Papers as lobbyists for Sberbank, Russia's largest bank (which is also a well-known Russian intelligence tentacle). Hillary would really do well to distance herself from the Podestas, but I don't see her firing her campaign chair any time soon.

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#118484: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:05:35 PM

Bill Clinton gets into confrontation with BLM protestor Oh Bill. Your probably right but you just had to open your mouth. This is probably going to be Obama and the Race card all over again.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#118485: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:08:36 PM

The stuff about race reparations makes me think of the Christopher Titus "I'm whitey, and I apologize" bit where, upon hearing that many would prefer a simple apology, goes on to personally apologize to every minority America's ever effed over. Blacks, native Americans, Mexicans, the Japanese (which he immediately takes back since, really, they started that one, though he does acknowledge we overreacted).

edited 7th Apr '16 4:10:18 PM by sgamer82

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118486: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:14:57 PM

Bill Clinton: "You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter," he told a protester. "Tell the truth."

I have to say, it's a good comeback.

edited 7th Apr '16 4:15:05 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#118487: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:19:45 PM

I think the protesters would suggest that it's not just the people who got the 13 year old hooked and sent them onto the street that Bill's law screwed, it also screwed the 13 year old who got for fully hooked on drugs and forced to commit murder, the 13 year old probably was a good person.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118488: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:27:17 PM

So he should be forgiven and sent home? I don't think so. But that's not the issue at hand. The crime bill that Clinton passed was widely hailed by urban minority communities as making a huge difference in cleaning up their streets. That it is now part of a system of racially-tinted law enforcement bias is not his direct fault. #BLM is targeting the wrong people.

edited 7th Apr '16 4:27:37 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#118489: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:36:30 PM

No but he probably shouldn't be out in a cell next to the guy who got him into it all in the first place, the 13 year old need to be taken off the path of violence and gang wars, not shoved further down it.

As for BLM's target focus, they can't exactly get close to Republicans, plus there's no expectation that Republicans will be on their side, Dems are meant to be on their side and calling for improvements from their own side isn't a bad thing.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118490: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:39:00 PM

They aren't "calling for improvements"; they are tearing down the candidates and creating dissent within a party that needs to retake the Senate and hold the White House in November to keep this country from crashing and burning.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#118491: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:40:54 PM

Is there any reason for a 13-year-old, on their first criminal offense, to get adult prison?

I'm thinking that, while individual 13-year-olds might deserve it, the presumption against it is so overwhelming that it shouldn't be done as a matter of policy. They need juvey and a clear road to law-abiding-citizen status.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118492: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:41:55 PM

The unfortunate reality is that the 13-year old in question may be so damaged that he cannot be rehabilitated, but that's what the criminal justice system is supposed to decide.

Haranguing Bill Clinton, of all people, isn't going to do a damn thing to help.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#118493: Apr 7th 2016 at 4:55:58 PM

The issue is not much the theoretical justifications for decisions in certain cases (which we can never be completely certain of), it's that our massively screwed up criminal justice system is making systematically horrible decisions based off fundamentally flawed logic.

It's bad policy that creates positive feedback.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#118494: Apr 7th 2016 at 5:21:09 PM

The US isn't in a win win situation when it comes to prison population and crime, most countries with a decent prison system can afford to have a rehabilitative system because they are small countries, low crime rates and have a high equity index.

There should be a leniency for crimes like theft, drug related and victim less crimes but for crimes like aggravated assault, murder, rape and child abuse? Not so much, even when the perpetrator is an minor people aren't willing to give a light sentence to someone who is a murder.

Inter arma enim silent leges
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#118495: Apr 7th 2016 at 5:21:59 PM

Haranguing Bill Clinton, of all people, isn't going to do a damn thing to help.
"Buck stops at the President's desk. He had the choice to not sign the bill and demand a more even handed bill get passed through, he didn't. He's responsible for letting it get passed and implemented."

On the other hand, attacking people for criticizing your bill's side effects over the last 20 years is shit is fucking retarded. It's one thing to argue it was the best that could be done after Nixon and Reagan basically rat fucking the living day lights out of blacks, when they weren't ignoring them, which lead to black communities turning into dens for breeding criminals.

It's another thing to wrap yourself in it and argue you should never be criticized.

And if the party can't get off its self smug high horse, that Neo Liberalism is a flawless system and technocrats never fail, it has no right to the Senate. The Democrats' main stream officials are doing everything to prove they're only marginally better than the Republicans, except vaguely enough on social justice.

And Bill is doing everything he seems he can to ruin his reputation as a "fair for his time" Elder Statesman.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#118496: Apr 7th 2016 at 5:40:20 PM

The US isn't in a win win situation when it comes to prison population and crime, most countries with a decent prison system can afford to have a rehabilitative system because they are small countries, low crime rates and have a high equity index.

The question is, if "war on crime" approaches directly increase both crime and money spent on the criminal justice system, while having many other negative spillovers, why recommend it? It's true it feels good, but that's not a basis for good policy.

Advocating increasingly harsher punishments is not only ignoring the underlying problem, it's directly making it worse.

There are much better ways to reduce crime, which isn't a surprise because our approach doesn't actually decrease crime.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#118497: Apr 7th 2016 at 5:50:03 PM

[up] Then why aren't things as bad as they were during the 90's?

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#118498: Apr 7th 2016 at 6:09:55 PM

I want to say that no one is beyond rehabilitation and I also want to say that being tough on crime is counterproductive and I also want to say that there is no clear line between the criminal and non-criminal populations.

Nor should there be.

[up]causality ≠ correlation

edited 7th Apr '16 6:10:30 PM by war877

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#118499: Apr 7th 2016 at 6:15:35 PM

I believe that, correct me if I'm wrong, crime rates periodically spike and fall in America, while overall the pattern has been growth.

It isn't really a great chain of logic to call the process of campaigning for more and longer incarceration an unmitigated success, after crime rates fall following a spike while still being higher than before.

edited 7th Apr '16 6:18:28 PM by CassidyTheDevil

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#118500: Apr 7th 2016 at 6:17:42 PM

Hey, everyone remember that Keystone pipeline?

I'd say the lawsuit to force Obama to go back on vetoing its expansion is probably dead in the water.

edited 7th Apr '16 6:18:20 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

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