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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#117801: Mar 29th 2016 at 9:41:24 PM

[up] Xenophobia, anger and fear does that to people.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#117802: Mar 29th 2016 at 10:10:23 PM

It's less accurate to say that the US is "buddy-buddy" with Fascists as it is to say that it's willing to pull of an Enemy Mine against more immediate threats. The US was willing to work with the Soviets against the Nazis, then with various regimes against the Soviets when they became the more immediate threat.

edited 29th Mar '16 10:11:46 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#117803: Mar 29th 2016 at 10:37:00 PM

So if certain things happened in a different order (and some u-boat related acts didn't happen), there may well have been a nightmare scenario of the United States siding with Hitler against Russia?

edited 29th Mar '16 10:37:29 PM by NickTheSwing

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#117804: Mar 29th 2016 at 10:38:53 PM

Probably not, the US government and most of the population was always sympathetic to the British, French and the rest of Western Europe. FDR was looking for an excuse to enter the war on the Allied side, and no one within the American political mainstream was advocating for anything other than pro-Allied action or isolation.

Plus, its likely that the Soviets could have defeated the Third Reich on their own, albeit with even greater bloodshed.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
alioth Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#117805: Mar 29th 2016 at 10:43:10 PM

[up]It's a bit much to say "on their own". Without direct intervention by the USA, yeah, but not without USA support in general.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#117806: Mar 29th 2016 at 10:53:40 PM

What is more likely is there would just be a phase 2 of the war, which there could have been many ways for that to happen. Quite a few people advocated say screw it with the alliance with Russia and continued the push east after Germany's surrender.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#117807: Mar 29th 2016 at 11:00:39 PM

Basically, the US couldn't care less if the Nazis and the Soviets fought each other to the last man. Once the Nazis started fighting Western Europe, the US started caring and were just looking for a reason to smack the Axis into oblivion. Naturally, that meant that the Soviets, by virtue of also fighting the Nazis, were our allies. Once the Nazis were eliminated, the US and the Soviets immediately began the Cold War against each other.

edited 29th Mar '16 11:03:49 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#117808: Mar 29th 2016 at 11:07:32 PM

[up][up]Which would have certainly caused a famine in Europe, at the very least. If not an outright Soviet victory. There was a reason that Truman (and basically everyone who was sane, so everyone apart from Patton and Churchill) thought that Operation Unthinkable was, well Unthinkable,

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
alioth Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#117809: Mar 29th 2016 at 11:12:02 PM

[up]It heavily depends on the point of divergence here. Operation: Unthinkable is too late for the Allies to legitimately sweep Europe and conquer the USSR. On the other hand, if the point of divergence is Britain starting to send support to the USSR in 1940 or before the USA uses both of its atom bombs, the proposed scenario becomes a lot more possible.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#117810: Mar 29th 2016 at 11:17:01 PM

@Nick The Swing: Unlikely, as a scenario where Hitler is less of a threat to America's national interest than Russia is unlikely. It would require Russia to start attacking US allies, and Hitler to not do so. Stalin, while perhaps even eviller than Hitler, had no quarrel with US allies. Hitler very much did.

Also, Hitler was working with Japan, who was a US enemy that was also earning the ire of the US.

Leviticus 19:34
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#117811: Mar 29th 2016 at 11:25:14 PM

Bernie Sanders welcomed Hillary Clinton’s agreement to debate him in New York before the state’s April 19 primary election.

She probably realized that refusing to debate Sanders because of his tone is bad optics.

edited 29th Mar '16 11:25:40 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#117812: Mar 30th 2016 at 1:29:14 AM

Nevermind, noticed someone already put it up last page.

edited 30th Mar '16 1:30:06 AM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#117813: Mar 30th 2016 at 1:58:51 AM

So, uh... Arizona's Secretary of State confirmed that there was, indeed, electoral fraud in the State, citing someone in her own office who fell victim to one of those mysterious "party switches".

A lot of people in Arizona are calling for a complete revote because of this, and if it's as widespread as it appears... I can't really blame them. Maricopa County, at the very least, should get a redo. And you know you dun goofed when a local news station actually namedrops Epic Fail for the situation.

edited 30th Mar '16 2:38:37 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#117814: Mar 30th 2016 at 2:06:52 AM

So with both Trump and Cruz going back on the nominee pledge I think we've got at least one third party run coming, Kasich hasn't balked on it fully but has said that answering the question was a mistake. Still shit be real and it's looking like things are going to get real messy.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#117815: Mar 30th 2016 at 2:36:15 AM

(Balloon Juice) CNN Town Hall has Trump confirm he will no longer support the eventual GOP nominee if it isn't him.

i.e. if Preibius or any of the other GOP establishment country club guys do anything funny to fuck Trump over, he's basically saying he'll take a plurality of the party and burn down the Tent.

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#117816: Mar 30th 2016 at 2:38:17 AM

[up] Honestly, it was a pretty smart move by Trump.

He just decreased the chances of the GOP elite fucking him over at the convention.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#117817: Mar 30th 2016 at 3:02:08 AM

Yes, a Trump third party run would hand the Democrats the White House on a gold plate.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#117818: Mar 30th 2016 at 6:00:27 AM

Thing is the Republican elites may not care about the White House, they may just be trying to play damage control on down-ticket races at this point. They'd have to think that Trump can win the White House, which indicators are he can't, so why take the down-ticket damage for a chance that won't work?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117819: Mar 30th 2016 at 8:05:35 AM

Republican elites have fixated on reclaiming the White House as their ticket to "reverse the damage" of Barack Obama's presidency. To lose would be a serious blow to their notion of legitimacy at a national level.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#117820: Mar 30th 2016 at 8:13:19 AM

In addition, politics revolve around the White House. Presidents are always elected on promises that are more properly Congress's job and majorities/successes/work there arevery underrated. The stunning incompetence of Congressional Republicans despite their majority status does enforce that pattern as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#117821: Mar 30th 2016 at 8:44:42 AM

[up][up] Yes... This is a very important election for them to win the Presidency on as if they lose the Presidency and Senate to the Democrats, they lose the Supreme Court as well. If everything goes badly for the Republicans as it appears right now, the Republicans will only have the House.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#117822: Mar 30th 2016 at 9:15:14 AM

Trump as the candidate might cost them the House.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#117823: Mar 30th 2016 at 9:18:56 AM

Unless the Vieth ruling is overturned or amended (with Scalia gone that is very well possible) they'll probably regain it in 2018.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#117824: Mar 30th 2016 at 9:33:04 AM

The house? Trump might cost them the party

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#117825: Mar 30th 2016 at 9:44:49 AM

Trump's ability to go third party is rapidly diminishing. I think Texas' deadline, for instance, is in early May to get on the ballot as an independent.


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