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desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117576: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:15:15 PM

@wehrmacht: sending other people to soldier instead of you is morally repugnant. It's grunt work (pun unintended), so someone else should do it?

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117577: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:18:43 PM

[up] Hardly. The whole point of a professional military is that it can be sent off to fight and die so that the ordinary citizen doesn't have to. Most democratic nations are founded on this principle; those that are not face some kind of persistent existential threat.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:19:57 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117578: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:20:08 PM

There's something very morally rotten in sending other people to die without giving your part, I think.
That's OT, however.
EDIT: Well, look where I live. I'll be the first to admit that it's colouring the way I look at things.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:20:48 PM by desdendelle

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#117579: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:21:05 PM

[up]

Well, we do have the Draft, but the wealthiest and most well-connected folks can all-but buy their way out of that.

Back on-topic, though, what "Negative ads" has Sanders been running against Clinton?

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117580: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:21:16 PM

More details on the Capitol shooting.

The gunman attempted to enter the building with concealed weapons but was stopped by the metal detector. Earlier reports that he shot a Capitol police officer may have been in error as the story is now saying that he pulled a gun after Capitol police stopped him, prompting them to shoot him.

EDIT: No, wait, this one clarifies that he did shoot an officer while being taken down, but not seriously.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:22:13 PM by TobiasDrake

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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117581: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:21:18 PM

They volunteered for it. The common thing to say is that they chose to do it so others weren't forced to.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117582: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:21:26 PM

You do your part by maintaining your economic, cultural, and political institutions so that the soldiers have something worth fighting for and worth coming home to. That's the implicit contract involved in a volunteer military.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:22:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#117583: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:22:09 PM

I just want the gun nuts to storm the convention in protest to being told not to bring their guns, and for the GOP to be forced to acknowledge yet another monster of their own making
That sounds hilarious, and makes me wish yet again that Jon Stewart was still on the Daily Show to make fun of it.
I'm not huge on the idea of soldiering in general even if I understand that having a military is necessary and important for a country.
And that's perfectly fine. I just get really tired of the bullshit about "I can't join the military because I'm 100% guaranteed to die on foreign soil" because, statistically speaking, that's really rare.
I'd half-expect people to just sigh in frustration rather than get truly mad about it.
The people I'd expect to be most horrified about it are Democrats. Republicans I expect would shrug their shoulders and mop up the blood and then blame Obama for it.
The whole point of a professional military is that it can be sent off to fight and die so that the ordinary citizen doesn't have to.
Yes, but the language used is so very Priveleged Elite. "Join the military like some minimum-wage schlub? Dear boy, that's why I have a trust fund and a monocle. Let the lesser people do all the bleeding and dying, that's a good chap." It's absolutely oozing disdain in support of a social structure that runs counter to the American Dream™.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117584: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:23:16 PM

[up] Elites having contempt for the military that they send off to die is not the same thing as society as a whole having that contempt. I don't know anyone personally who isn't vehemently patriotic when it comes to supporting our soldiers and giving them credit for their self-sacrifice in defending us. It's mainly Republicans in government who hold them in contempt.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:24:34 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117585: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:23:52 PM

[up][up][up] I guess that makes sense in a volunteer army scenario. Here, though? It's like I said, you're sending somebody else instead. Even I, weak and lazy as I may be, gave my three years.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:24:08 PM by desdendelle

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#117586: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:23:55 PM

what "Negative ads" has Sanders been running against Clinton?
I'd be shocked if Sanders was actually running negative ads. I would not be shocked if other people were running pro-Bern-anti-Hill ads and Clinton's campaign is blaming him for them.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#117587: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:25:42 PM

CNN is now reporting that a female bystander was wounded in the Capitol incident.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117588: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:26:28 PM

[up][up][up]You gotta remember, you being in Israel and all you're in a pretty unique scenario.

The United States hasn't faced an existential threat since the Soviet Union and even then it was with MAD, not with anything a common conscript could deal with.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:26:37 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#117590: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:29:55 PM

On a less volatile note:

"Supreme Court rejects Illinois ex-governor's corruption appeal" - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0WU12W

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117591: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:30:10 PM

The United States hasn't faced an existential threat since the Soviet Union and even then it was with MAD, not with anything a common conscript could deal with.

We've also never faced an external invasion in the entire history of our country. The closest we've been is the American Revolutionary War. Even our Civil War took place mostly in the South.

When we go to war, it's in someone else's backyard.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117592: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:31:00 PM

[up][up][up]Ah, didn't see it. Fair enough.

[up]And on top of that it's worth mentioning our awful history with the draft. Vietnam was a trainwreck both over there and over here.

Conscription just plain wouldn't work here.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:31:45 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#117593: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:31:28 PM

@wehrmacht: sending other people to soldier instead of you is morally repugnant. It's grunt work (pun unintended), so someone else should do it?

To be clear, I don't really have a problem with the idea of soldiers necessarily. I respect the fact that people are willing to go through that tough regimen and put their lives at risk to defend something. I'm personally just scared of the idea of going into combat (I know it's not very likely these days considering where I live, I'm just talking about in principle) and I'm not sure if I'd really have what it takes to be a soldier in the first place. I have nothing in principle against soldiers at all and respect them as I would anyone else, I just don't support the idea of a mandatory conscription at least in peace time unless there are special circumstances like the country bordering a dangerous neighbor or something

. It's not really about sending someone else in my place so much as "why can't let you let the people who want to serve, serve, and the rest go about their lives if there's no need for things to be any different?".

edited 28th Mar '16 1:38:47 PM by wehrmacht

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117594: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:34:19 PM

Come to think of it, the lack of a war on American soil might be why foreign invasion is such a bogeyman around some parts. We can conspire in hushed whispers about how only our guns can protect us from China or Korea sending troops to our shores or the government attempting to declare martial law because we have no idea what that would actually be like.

Frankly, a super-sized Big Mac Value Meal is a bigger threat to the safety of American citizens than vaguely Asian people with guns have ever been.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117595: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:34:23 PM

The Brits invaded us in 1812, remember? And the Spanish-American War, while never an existential threat to the United States, was a skirmish on our physical borders.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:34:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#117596: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:36:31 PM

Well their was the war of 1812.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#117597: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:37:13 PM

War of 1812. The Brittish still ruled Canada at that point. They burned the first White House and there were naval battles on the Great Lakes.

Spanish American and Mexican American wars are "kinda-sorta but not really" examples since they took place mostly on territory that was part of America but didn't belong to the US at the time.

After that, the last time an actual nation-state hit American soil was Pearl Harbor.

edited 28th Mar '16 1:42:12 PM by Elle

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117598: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:37:27 PM

...I had actually forgotten about the War of 1812. My history classes never talked about it, so I tend to forget it was a thing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#117599: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:38:33 PM

So yeah, on Google all the results I'm getting for "Sanders negative ad" and "Sanders attack ad" (no quotes on the searches) are from back in January, and deal almost solely with his oft-repeated bit regarding Clinton's speeches to Wall Street. I know he's also criticized her for asking for 1/3 of a Million dollars to sit at a table with her, Bill, and George Clooney (and his wife) at a fundraiser, but that's not exactly an "attack ad".

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#117600: Mar 28th 2016 at 1:38:46 PM

The United States is not Israel. We only have Canada and Mexico as our neighbors. Every war the U.S. is in is, effectively, oversees since neither Canada or Mexico are hostile to us or even desire to be hostile to us and wouldn't even survive being hostile to us. Our last true military rival was the Soviet Union which the United States outlived. Even with the US's purely volunteer military, the nation still has the most powerful military in the world by far. Nothing can threaten the United States in regards to warfare.

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