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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#117526: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:24:33 AM

If a large part of the population get the training then so do the violent criminals. Plus combat training is different from conflict resolution training. There's a reason the military don't do police work unless everything has gone to shit.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:25:30 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#117527: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:25:15 AM

I'm reminded of how in the Russian thread the tropers there have said that their mandatory year of service is basically being the army's intern for a while and then going home. The Russian military only ever sends full time and enlisted soldiers for actual soldiering.

Yeah, mandatory military service does not mean "sent to war" in any country that currently practices it. If only just because these countries are most often at peace. It just means they go to boot camp, hang around collecting a military paycheck for a while, and get sent back to civilian life with some boring stories to share with their friends.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117528: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:26:16 AM

Yeah, more than a few gang members or nasty individuals try and sign up with the intention of learning some army know how and then bringing the information back to the rest of their friends.

Most of them are drummed out in basic but still.

Oh really when?
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#117529: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:28:28 AM

I'm reminded of how in the Russian thread the tropers there have said that their mandatory year of service is basically being the army's intern for a while and then going home.

Some say "intern", I say "prisoner/slave".

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117530: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:30:41 AM

Some might observe that democratic societies were founded at least partly on the idea of professional, full-time armies and police forces that could shoulder the burden of self-defense so that individuals weren't required to carry around weapons all the time. Reverting back to that state is a serious sign of decline in any nation that is not under constant threat of warfare, such as Israel.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:31:00 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117531: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:32:04 AM

[up][up]I mean more to say that in describing the kind of work they're allowed to do.

I agree with the whole mandatory service being unacceptable thing.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:32:18 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#117532: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:36:16 AM

Saying mandatory service is slavery and and inevitably leads to despotism is a slippery slope argument.

Which, I agree suddenly radically changing things is a bad idea, but to say it's inherently evil in all circumstances and inevitably against goodness is factually wrong.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:38:26 AM by CassidyTheDevil

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117533: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:38:26 AM

Generally speaking, military service can be good for you, but not in the way you think — if you're lucky, you'd learn a couple things about standing on your own feet; it's basically like being schooled on Life, where you get no second chances and you have to get things right (whether you're in the field or not is irrelevant, this applied to me and I was the jobinkest of jobniks). However, that's hardly guaranteed and at least part of that is attitude (that you bring with you from home or whatever).

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117534: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:40:00 AM

Also, consider how many recruits, enlisted or otherwise, drop out because they are unable to handle the regimen of absolute loyalty and obedience required by a professional military.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#117535: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:43:10 AM

The US has absolutely no functional need for it, strategic or otherwise. How did this conversation even start?

Might want to switch it to the military thread.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:44:35 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#117536: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:56:40 AM

That was me, was a side point I made that attracted indignant people. Which is fine, correcting people through argumentation is part of life, but it is rather mentally tiring trying to deal with overly emotional people even they're right.

Sorry, I guess I'm not really bringing much good to discussion.

edited 28th Mar '16 11:57:51 AM by CassidyTheDevil

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117537: Mar 28th 2016 at 11:59:06 AM

Dunno, the discussion is OT, but it doesn't seem to me like it's toxic or anything. Then again I'm just a (mostly) quiet observer with some experience as a conscript.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117538: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:01:12 PM

Also, consider how many recruits, enlisted or otherwise, drop out because they are unable to handle the regimen of absolute loyalty and obedience required by a professional military.

Or get kicked out because they're unable to fulfill the physical, emotional, and/or psychological demands of the job.

That's what happened to me, but I would still consider the experience to have been a very important and defining one. My time at Fort Sill, short though it was, taught me a lot of valuable lessons and to this day, I still consider my DS to have been the most important educator I've ever had. It's something I think everyone should go through, but not something I would support being mandatory.

edited 28th Mar '16 12:02:31 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#117539: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:06:58 PM

Shots fired in the visitors' centre of the Capitol building, the Capitol and White House are on lockdown.

edited 28th Mar '16 12:07:27 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#117540: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:10:06 PM

Shit really?

I hope this doesn't ruin my vacation plans. I was gonna go to DC this weekend.

Oh really when?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#117541: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:10:15 PM

Will congressmen start supporting gun control once they realize they're potential victims of gun violence?

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#117542: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:10:56 PM

Congress people have been shot before and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#117543: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:12:57 PM

He got caught already, with one police officer wounded.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#117544: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:14:52 PM

Do we know why? Is he a right wing nutjob?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117545: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:15:21 PM

Specifically, a police officer was shot and the shooter is in custody. Story is developing as we speak.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#117546: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:16:06 PM

@ smokeycut:

Will congressmen start supporting gun control once they realize they're potential victims of gun violence?

Probably note. One — Gabrielle Giffords — was shot in 2012.

edited 28th Mar '16 12:17:26 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#117547: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:19:09 PM

[up]x3

No idea yet.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#117548: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:27:33 PM

I dunno, couldn't switching to supporting gun control make you a potential target? Might be difficult to express opinions in that situation.

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#117549: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:28:58 PM

They probably think "Bah, that other moron got shot, there's no way I can get shot".

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#117550: Mar 28th 2016 at 12:33:52 PM

They view themselves as part of the righteous gun-owning class which can never become a victim of itself because reasons. A small percentage probably realize and accept that a consequence of arming the populace against government tyranny is that they themselves could become the targets of revolution and consider it a proper check against the system.

edited 28th Mar '16 12:35:20 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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