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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#116976: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:56:13 PM

Oddly enough, Mormons apparently dislike Trump so much that polls so that Utah would go for Sanders or Clinton in the general. Utah hasn't voted Democrat since 1964.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35877414

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#116977: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:02:45 PM

They don't like him because he's an ass, apparently. My extended family on my dad's side are mostly mormons and I certainly understand why they'd despise a blowhard like Trump.

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#116978: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:03:31 PM

Even if Trump won the election (which he probably won't but hey, lots of surprises this cycle), panic is counter-productive. Join the local resistance movement against his safe-city crackdown, grab a pack of smokes, start practicing Spanish, and take up cycling. In fact, start doing those last two now, they're kind of fun. smile

edited 22nd Mar '16 9:08:28 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116979: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:09:53 PM

In general terms, even if Trump does get the presidency, we will survive. Lots of things are survivable. Just. Go vote for democrats is my advice for you Dogs. Or maybe take a step back because you have mentioned you have anxiety.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#116981: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:33:10 PM

I'm not the most knowledgeable person about the inner workings of United States politics but I'm fairly sure the people around a theoretical president Trump would try damn hard to stonewall him as much as possible. It'd be horrible but you guys would probably survive.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#116982: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:33:32 PM

Oddly enough, Mormons apparently dislike Trump so much that polls so that Utah would go for Sanders or Clinton in the general. Utah hasn't voted Democrat since 1964.

Hmm, the association of Mormonism with the hard-right is unfortunate. Maybe that'll change in the future, you do see more coverage lately of leftie Mormons in the press even though they're the minority.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#116983: Mar 22nd 2016 at 9:37:14 PM

It's kind of hard for them not to be because Mormon doctrine promotes a very conservative set of societal values. You know, the whole shtick of a "traditional" family, disapproval of homosexuality and overt sexuality in general, etc. This goes so far that they're actively discouraged from swearing and aren't even allowed to smoke or drink coffee (though caffeine in general doesn't seem to be forbidden because most mormons i know were perfectly fine with drinking soda). In that sense it's unsurprising that they'd mostly flock towards republican candidates; a lot of them are basically WASP's with a few more peculiarities.

edited 22nd Mar '16 9:40:27 PM by wehrmacht

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#116984: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:22:45 PM

Ted Cruz, being an enormous asshole, responded to Brussels by proclaiming that the US should "patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods". The NYC police commissioner responds by telling Cruz to fuck off.

In the aftermath of the Brussels terrorist attacks, Ted Cruz sought to show he would be a president who could prevent such attacks on US soil by suggesting that police should patrol Muslim communities more heavily.

During an interview that aired on CNN, Mr Cruz bashed New York Mayor Bill de Blasio for calling off surveillance of the city's Muslim communities, even though that surveillance failed to surface a single lead for police.

"We need to empower law enforcement to patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods before they become radicalized," Mr Cruz said in response to the attacks in Belgium. "We need to secure the southern border to prevent terrorist infiltration. And we need to execute a coherent campaign to utterly destroy Isis."

...

But Mr Cruz suggested that the methods used to monitor Muslims in the New York area — like planting informants in mosques and infiltrating Muslim student groups — should be considered across the country.

New York Police Commission Bill Bratton slammed Mr Cruz for his comments on Muslims, saying he took "great offense" from them.

"The statements he made today is why he's not going to become president of this country," Mr Bratton said. "We don't need a president that doesn't respect the values that form the foundation of this country."

In 2014, the New York Police Department acknowledged that such surveillance did not lead to any terror investigations. Police weren't able to find a single lead.

"I never made a lead from rhetoric that came from a Demographics report, and I'm here since 2006," said NYPD Assistant Chief Thomas Gulati in an Associated Press report. The Demographics Unit was the secret team that spied on Muslims communities in the city.

Mayor de Blasio ended the surveillance after he took office in 2014. Earlier this year, the NYPD settled two cases related to the surveillance.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#116985: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:26:13 PM

[up][up]I can attest to that. My girlfriend comes from an LDS/Mormon family and generally went Republican. One of their family friends was also my first exposure to the knee jerk, other side is auto bad attitude I despise in politics.

I was also with them, living in California at the time the anti gay marriage proposition 13 was making the rounds when someone from their church called me specifically (as in asked for me by name) to get me to vote for it (or against it, I legitimately forget which way was anti-gay marriage). While not gay myself, that has become an issue I feel strongly about (perhaps ironically due to agreeing with my generally conservative brother that if they aren't harming anyone then who cares) that all I did was assure them I knew how I was going to vote. They assumed I meant I'd vote their way and left it at that.

On a completely unrelated note, I think something just clicked for me. My above mentioned brother is generally conservative, to the point he's referred to socialism as per Bernie Sanders "unconstitutional." Whether it actually is or not isn't important to my personal epiphany though. I just realized that one reason he likely leans conservative is because he's a big believer in individual rights and the Republican party, as proponents of small government (in theory if not in fact) would be a natural attraction vs the big government oriented Democrats, or would oppose socialism. They focus on making the group more important than the individual.

Not sure how accurate my assessment is, but I can see how it'd fit his logic.

edited 22nd Mar '16 10:34:20 PM by sgamer82

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#116986: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:38:26 PM

Sanders just won Utah. And by a large margin.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116987: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:43:12 PM

I thought they were still counting Utah? They're doing a lot of states tonight.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#116988: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:44:20 PM

Oh yeah, this is a Super Tuesday, huh? My Reuters app popped a notifier about Arizona but that was all.

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#116989: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:47:24 PM

[up]

The media is calling it Western Tuesday.

I guess they realized the word super would have no meaning, if every Tuesday with primary was super.

The GOP have primaries in Arizona, Utah, and the American Samoa.

The Dems have primaries in Arizona, Utah, and Idaho.

edited 22nd Mar '16 10:54:59 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#116990: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:48:44 PM

Only 3 states tonight, Arizona, Utah, Idaho. Idaho is a caucus, so we probably won't have results there until the morning.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116992: Mar 22nd 2016 at 10:54:27 PM

I still find it weird that we can have primaries in the territories and yet none of them can vote in the general election. Seriously, we need to just make all those places states and give them all the rights and responsibilities.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#116993: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:09:04 PM

I just realized that one reason he likely leans conservative is because he's a big believer in individual rights and the Republican party, as proponents of small government (in theory if not in fact) would be a natural attraction vs the big government oriented Democrats, or would oppose socialism. They focus on making the group more important than the individual.

Not sure how accurate my assessment is, but I can see how it'd fit his logic.

Hmm, your brother sounds like libertarian-leaning conservative.

Progressives need a fundamentally new approach to politics. They have been losing not just because conservatives have so much more money and power, but also because they have accepted the conservatives’ framing of political debates. They have accepted a framing where conservatives want market outcomes whereas liberals want the government to intervene to bring about outcomes that they consider fair. This puts liberals in the position of seeming to want to tax the winners to help the losers. This "loser liberalism" is bad policy and horrible politics. Progressives would be better off fighting battles over the structure of markets so that they don't redistribute income upward. This book describes some of the key areas where progressives can focus their efforts in restructuring the market so that more income flows to the bulk of the working population rather than just a small elite.

The End of Loser Liberalism: Making Markets Progressive

I think progressives should use these kinds of arguments more. You saw these kind of arguments with the New Left, but it seems like progressives have largely ignored the importance of cronyism and instead focused on regulation and taxation. The latter isn't invalid, but to me the former seems more likely to win debates than the typical approach. At least, maybe penetrate the deadlock.

Likewise, I'd argue libertarians should ally with the Left, not the Right. That ship sailed long ago, of course.

But the appeals of Republicans towards the free market is almost entirely superficial, in reality they're just as "big government" if not more. And they don't have a good track record on civil liberties.

Of course, neither of those will probably ever happen. :/

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116994: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:10:54 PM

Well the libertarians went with the Right because American libertarians don't really fit the academic definition and deep down just want the government to stop telling them they can't burn crosses anymore.

Oh really when?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#116995: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:14:48 PM

[up] Or smoke weed whenever they like?

Keep Rolling On
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#116996: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:20:13 PM

I'd call that reading characteristically uncharitable, Le Garcon.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116997: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:29:08 PM

Well down here that's who they are and they're the ones who are politically active.

The lazy weed smoking ones who just wanna smoke and are oblivious to the greater implications of the movement are usually more out west.

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#116998: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:31:09 PM

If memory serves, some more cannabis initatives are on ballot in several states during the general election. Some folks wonder how it will affect these states' presidential ballot.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#116999: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:33:46 PM

And Sanders just took Idaho. Again, with a large margin.

He might just walk out of here tonight with more delegates than Hillary.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#117000: Mar 22nd 2016 at 11:51:06 PM

@Ted Cruz law enforcement comments: well, it's a good idea to try and prevent radicalisation, but it's more of a social services thing than a "let's go all State Sec on them". That is not to say that law enforcement doesn't have its place in preventing terrorism, but, well, if you wanna prevent a guy from going "fuk da system imma bomb someone" you gotta give him psychological advice, not a day in the station.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.

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