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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116577: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:45:17 AM

@ Fighteer in Post 116567

I was interpreting the superdelegate thing to be saying that if he didn't have enough votes that he would ask the superdelegates to switch- because if he did have enough he wouldn't need to rely on the superdelegates, right? Maybe I misunderstood.

RE Garland, I'm an idiot. Not sure why it didn't click for me that Obama would only be withdrawing Garland if he didn't receive a vote/received a no vote.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#116578: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:45:25 AM

[up][up]

After their shitty governor, they might as well be.

edited 18th Mar '16 9:45:38 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116580: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:47:00 AM

Do Latinos, Muslims, and Asians not count as minorities? Sanders has been either leading or splitting their vote with Clinton.

Clinton is only doing well with black Americans, and so far only in Southern states. Sanders has strong margins among younger blacks and in more liberal states, like Michigan.

"Race problem" my butt. "White-centric" my posterior.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#116581: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:49:01 AM

[up][up]By the skin of his teeth, yes. But that state usually goes Democratic anyway.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116582: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:52:18 AM

@Blue Moon Mario- Do you have a cite? Not doubting per se but my impression was that Clinton had higher support than Sanders across all of those groups. I've been trying to google it but am only finding stats about individual states.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#116583: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:55:58 AM

If anything, we should be looking purely at the swing states since we don't know how they'll vote in the general.

  • Iowa wants Clinton & Cruz.
  • New Hampshire wants Sanders & Trump
  • Nevada wants Clinton & Trump.
  • Colorado wants Sanders. The Republican Primary in Colorado has not happened yet.
  • Florida wants Clinton & Trump.
  • Ohio wants Clinton & Kasich.

Effectively, Sanders is a better general election candidate than Cruz or Kasich, but not when compared to Clinton and Trump.

edited 18th Mar '16 9:57:22 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116584: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:56:27 AM

[up][up] While we're waiting for a source, I would like to point out that Clinton campaign has been only talking about the "black vote" in reference to minority vote. Other minorities have really been out of her proverbial sight.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#116585: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:57:51 AM

Oh good, we're no longer indulging the guy who is clearly on some campaign's payroll. Seriously, I don't mean that as an insult; I looked it up. We have tools for that. The only thing that account has ever done on this site is post anti-Clinton rhetoric in this and only this thread. Somebody's campaign somewhere has discovered that the internet is a great way to propagandize.

I anticipate we'll probably have a new "Clinton is the devil" person showing up in the near future. Different person, same agenda. I don't know if it's the Sanders campaign or one of the Republicans, but someone desperately wants to get the word out on our very popular website that you shouldn't vote for Clinton because she's a spider-monster who eats babies.

That's not a good argument at all. She wins Republican states, and Trump wins the same states, by a much higher margin. Those states in the general WILL go to Trump, so they're effectively worthless for Democrats no matter how well their candidate does in the primary.

Not necessarily. There are a lot of Republicans willing to vote Democrat if it means Trump doesn't get into office. Like, look at Texas. Trump won 48 delegates in Texas but lost to Cruz's 104, while Clinton won with 147, almost as many as both of them combined. Trump won 40 delegates in Georgia to Clinton's 73. Trump won Alabama with 36 delegates, Hillary won Alabama with 44. There are almost twice as many people in the Democrat primary than the Republican one even in red states.

Trump's winning the Republican primary but it's heavily split between him and the other candidates. The same can be said for Hillary vs. Sanders but there is little fear of Sanders supporters going to Trump's side. With Rubio out of the running and Cruz destined for failure, there are probably plenty of people who would gladly vote Hillary over Trump but don't have a chance to do so as of yet because they're registered Republican.

edited 18th Mar '16 9:58:38 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116586: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:58:05 AM

I suppose she figured that with Trump Trumping, she didn't really need to do much to get the Latinx vote.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#116587: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:59:09 AM

[up][up][up][up]That assumes that states supporting Clinton won't switch to Sanders in the general.

edited 18th Mar '16 9:59:59 AM by Kostya

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#116588: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:00:49 AM

Basically, I think there are a lot of red folks who are willing to vote for Hillary's suspiciously red-looking shade of blue over the conspicuous Swastika slapped in the middle of Trump's red.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#116590: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:01:17 AM

Bernie would have about the same percentage of black voters as Clinton in the general, and there'd likely be more black voters overall due to his popularity among young blacks, who probably wouldn't have voted at all if it wasn't for him.

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116591: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:02:22 AM

Somebody's campaign somewhere has discovered that the internet is a great way to propagandize.

I would like to point out that's dangerously close to a conspiracy theory. And considering the guy spewing those just got banned, indulging in those right then and there again is... kinda hypocritical.

And if someone feels like painting Sanders voters by Solipsist, better paint Clinton voters by Nihlus too.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116592: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:03:20 AM

He was a Clinton voter? I thought he was just a Rubio concern troll.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#116594: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:08:13 AM

Who said he was working for Sanders? He could just as easily have been here for Cruz or even Trump; yes, there was that article about how Bill Clinton should be condemned for discussing politics with Trump, but Trump knows how infamous he is; I certainly wouldn't put it past him to try and condemn people by proxy for associating with himself. Anything that weakens Clinton would make him stronger when he's facing her in the general election.

I make no assumptions as to who the guy was trying to convince us to vote for, but his political agenda was pretty clear given that condemning Clinton is literally the only thing he's ever done on this entire site. No wiki edits, no posts in other threads, nothing but propaganda.

edited 18th Mar '16 10:10:09 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116595: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:08:57 AM

@Blue Moon Mario- Thanks. One thing I am seeing from those cites as well as this article I found on the Latino vote is that it seems like who won the state affects who won the demographic groups of that state (which I guess is a Captain Obvious thing now that I think about it).

Also, I probably shouldn't be venturing in this area (mods, feel free to thump) but while Nihilis was clearly a Republican concern troll, I did sometimes wonder about Owl, although they seemed to be sincere about supporting Sanders in a way Nihilis never was about supporting Clinton.

I did note though how Owl was oddly willing to buy into Republican anti-Clinton attacks and seemed to post a few moderately positive articles about Trump (i.e. stuff about his doing well and in one case an article favorable towards his and Sanders' anti-free trade views).

They may be the mythical Trump supporting Sanders voter.

edited 18th Mar '16 10:12:47 AM by Hodor2

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#116596: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:10:23 AM

The lack of focus on other minorities probably has to do with the lack of focus on non black or Hispanic minorities in general. Muslims only ever get brought up when talking about terrorism and how they either all are or aren't terrorists and Asians only when to talk about how much better they're doing than other minorities and how that's proof the system isn't racist.

Most states with a substantial Asian population percentage wise are already guaranteed to go blue either way. I'm not even sure there is a state where Muslim population could significantly affect the vote.

Not to say that Sanders reaching out isn't good, it's great, but that's probably the rationale behind it. As for Hilary, I could buy the theory that Trump is doing so well advertising against the Republican brand that Hilary doesn't even feel the need to bother. Which I could understandably see people being annoyed with her about.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#116597: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:11:40 AM

[up][up][up]

I make no assumptions as to who the guy was trying to convince us to vote for, but his political agenda was pretty clear given that condemning Clinton is literally the only thing he's ever done on this entire site. No wiki edits, no posts in other threads, nothing but propaganda.

And condemning Israel. I wouldn't be surprised that after some prodding, he'd be the sort that would wish for Israel to be destroyed.

edited 18th Mar '16 10:11:54 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116598: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:12:12 AM

[up] x4 Having a political agenda and being literally paid to spread it are extensively different accusations, though. I mean, why would anyone have a political agenda in a political thread, am I right?

Occam's Razor. It's much simpler and likelier he was just like that, other than getting literally paid to spread the word on some forum.

I just want any conspiracy theories to be called out, not just his.

edited 18th Mar '16 10:12:31 AM by Luminosity

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#116599: Mar 18th 2016 at 10:13:03 AM

She wins Republican states, and Trump wins the same states, by a much higher margin. Those states in the general WILL go to Trump, so they're effectively worthless for Democrats no matter how well their candidate does in the primary.
That's not true. The group of people who vote in the primaries are different than the group that votes in the general. Primary voters are generally the people who are most interested in (and have the strongest opinions on) politics. The general election attracts a much wider audience. The people who like Trump tend to really like Trump, so they turned out in droves for the primary. People who dislike him but aren't especially enthusiastic about any other candidate to the level of making a point to vote for them in the primary will almost certainly turn out to vote against him in the general.

It remains to be seen how large a group of people that is, but I'd honestly feel pretty good about Clinton or Sanders against Trump in the general election.

Oh good, we're no longer indulging the guy who is clearly on some campaign's payroll. Seriously, I don't mean that as an insult; I looked it up. We have tools for that. The only thing that account has ever done on this site is post anti-Clinton rhetoric in this and only this thread.
Huh, you're right. No edits on the wiki and the only forum posts he's made were in this thread. I'm generally hesitant to declare conspiracy-theory type "yeah that guy is totally a paid shill" conclusions, but he's either a paid shill, a troll, or just has a serious one track mind. None of the three are good for the community.

Having a political agenda and being literally paid to spread it are extensively different accusations, though. I mean, why would anyone have a political agenda in a political thread, am I right?
Coming to a political thread to talk about politics is one thing. Coming to TV Tropes as a whole just to talk about politics, and only to demonize Clinton (because he literally never did anything else on the site, ever) is something else.

edited 18th Mar '16 10:16:24 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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