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flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#116526: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:40:36 AM

[up][up][up]You are making The Question cry

edited 18th Mar '16 8:41:39 AM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#116527: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:42:13 AM

I find it unspeakably hilarious that people continue to dismiss information they simply don't agree with, despite all evidence I do provide.

[up]I'm going to get banned for providing sources for everything I say and not personally attacking anyone over it? This is a POLITICS forum. People need to be a little more willing to hold a discussion.

You're not interested in having a discussion, you're — as Fighteer pointed out — selling a narrative and dismissing any interpretation of the facts that doesn't match your own. You took "Bill Clinton and Donald Trump had a phone conversation about politics" and spun it into "Bill Clinton encouraged Trump to run for president" despite the source you provide specifically saying that wasn't the case. You're posting leading stories and then saying "isn't that interesting?" and then calling us all willfully blind when we say "no, not really", all while pretending to take a neutral just-the-facts-ma'am stance.

We get that you don't like Clinton. That's fine. You're allowed to not like Clinton. But you're not adding anything to the discussion, you're just posting things, making wild suppositions, and then yelling at people for not agreeing with said wild suppositions — over and over and over again.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:43:35 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#116528: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:44:20 AM

It's called confirmation bias. All of your "evidence" is confirmation bias.

[up][up]

Good, maybe him and Ronaldo from Steven Universe can go cry in the corner. I hate conspiracy theorists of any kind.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:45:03 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#116529: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:45:23 AM

From the Article

Clinton’s personal office in New York confirmed that the call occurred in late May, but an aide to Clinton said the 2016 race was never specifically discussed and that it was only a casual chat.

The tone of the call was informal, and Clinton never urged Trump to run, the four people said.

People with knowledge of the call in both camps said it was one of many that Clinton and Trump have had over the years, whether about golf or donations to the Clinton Foundation. But the call in May was considered especially sensitive, coming soon after Hillary Rodham Clinton had declared her own presidential run the month before.

So apparently Trump and the Clintons are acquainted personally and Donald was talking to Bill possibly to bounce off some ideas. Maybe Bill was too friendly (I mean, it was before they became competition?) about it, but I really don't see anything newsworthy beyond

"Donald Trump and Bill Clinton discuss politics over the phone."

At worst I'd say Bill was possibly figuring he could spike the GOP's race a bit by encouraging Trump to partake in the discussion, a gambit that has Gone Horribly Right

edited 18th Mar '16 8:46:41 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116530: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:46:10 AM

Does this not read as encouragement?

Trump took the call from his office in Trump Tower in New York, according to the four allies, who requested anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly. The call came as Trump was making a final decision about whether to run, and he was candid about his political ambitions and his potential interest in seeking the White House during the talk, these allies said.

The 42nd president listened intently and then analyzed Trump’s prospects and his desire to rouse the GOP base, the Trump allies said.

The tone of the call was informal, and Clinton never urged Trump to run, the four people said. Rather, they said, Clinton sounded curious about Trump’s moves toward a presidential bid and told Trump that he was striking a chord with frustrated conservatives and was a rising force on the right.

One person with knowledge of Clinton’s end of the call said the former president was upbeat and encouraging during the conversation, which occurred as Trump was speaking out about GOP politics and his prescriptions for the nation.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:47:51 AM by SolipsistOwl

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#116531: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:47:49 AM

No it sounds to me more about him being polite and friendly to someone who was at that point not yet an active political enemy.

And to respond do your bolded lines: He calls Bill Clinton, former POTUS, I kinda expect him to ask him for political advice and maybe just another set of lines? I do not see anything fishy here.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:48:41 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#116532: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:48:03 AM

Occam's Razor, dude. You're making a lot of assumptions.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116533: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:48:22 AM

[up][up]Bill had no idea his wife was going to run only a few weeks after this phone call?

edited 18th Mar '16 8:48:35 AM by SolipsistOwl

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#116534: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:49:52 AM

None of this matters.

In the end, it's the GOP base's fault for liking Trump.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116535: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:50:18 AM

Actually, it's the mainstream media's fault for covering Trump so much.

If Trump hadn't run, we'd see the same policies and rhetoric from Cruz, Bush, and Kasich.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:50:46 AM by SolipsistOwl

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#116536: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:51:11 AM

[up][up][up]Why does that have a direct correlation? Trump runs for the GOP Primary, Hillary for the Democratic. At this point they are not yet direct opponents either?

Its like having two garden parties next to each other and each voting for a party king/queen, Donald was leaning over the fence to ask some opinions on the race in his garden.

Call me if they still have late night talks after nominations....

edited 18th Mar '16 8:51:43 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116537: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:51:30 AM

Wanted to comment on two things:

Re the discussion of AIPAC

So with that AIPAC thing, they are decidedly a right wing group but I wanted to note that Solipist Owl initially gave the impression that Trump and Clinton were the two guests invited and didn't note that all of the candidates were. Sanders has not yet committed to my knowledge but I don't think it is true that he refused or has refused in the past (is there a cite for that? I wouldn't think he would have been invited in the past since he hasn't be a Presidential candidate previously).

At least in liberal Jewish circles (to which I belong) the issue is more the argument of whether Trump should be dis-invited. I'd like to say yes, but the point was to invite all of the frontrunners and he sadly is one. For the same reason I think it would be rude of Sanders not to attend. It's pretty much the same thing as his going to a Fox News sponsored town hall.

Also, RE a previous thing I had commented on in terms of Sanders' relationship with Obama/why Obama is supporting Clinton- I don't know if Obama should have offered that compromise on Social Security (probably not) but whether it was a good idea or not, it promoted Sanders to threaten a Ralph Nader, which I can't imagine endeared him to Obama.

edited 18th Mar '16 8:55:04 AM by Hodor2

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116538: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:52:23 AM

[up]Actually, I did note that Cruz and Kasich were also attending.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#116539: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:52:49 AM

Clinton would say that his garden is the most popular reality show out there.

Non Indicative Username
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116541: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:54:57 AM

The Backstory on Bernie Sanders and Israel-Palestine: Why Is He So Quiet About the Mideast Tragedy?

(There is no record of Sanders attending events with the primary Israel lobbying group, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which every presidential contender makes sure to appear at. Sanders also does not speak at pro-Israel rallies, and he hasn't traveled to the region in decades. While he is Jewish, he does not seem to align with the harsh anti-Palestinian politics of many of the mainstream Jewish organizations in the United States such as the American Jewish Committee or the Anti-Defamation League.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#116542: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:56:00 AM

Posts a story saying Bill and Trump had a phone conversation and nothing more. Insists that there must be more to it than that. When others say "we disagree" condemns them all as being willfully blind, despite their own source not saying anything beyond "a conversation occurred."

But nope, no conspiracy theories here. Nuh uh.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116543: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:56:41 AM

@Solipist Owl- You did later on, in a more recent post. But your initial post (which I can find if you want) mentioned that Clinton and Trump were guests with no mention of Sanders being invited (or even IIRC the fact the event was one where all of the candidates were invited- you gave the false impression that Trump and Clinton were keynote speakers).

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116544: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:57:15 AM

I'm not sure why people are surprised at Bernie not attending pro-Israel events. He supports a two-state solution, doesn't he? So what if he's Jewish, that doesn't mean he has to ally with current Israel policies.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116545: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:58:57 AM

[up][up]At the time I first posted about AIPAC, they had made no mention of inviting anyone other than those who already confirmed their attendance.

[up]Unfortunately, Sanders is wrong on the two-state solution, and I hope his new foreign policy team educates him on that.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#116546: Mar 18th 2016 at 8:59:57 AM

[up]Mind elaborating on why the two-state solution is wrong?

"You can reply to this Message!"
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#116547: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:00:53 AM

Can someone give me a brief rundown on the two state solution? I'm assuming its one where Israel and Palestine both coexist and stop fucking with each other.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#116548: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:01:42 AM

Solipsist, you're outta OTC. For good, as far as I'm concerned.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116549: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:02:11 AM

Because "Palestine" is already supposed to exist as a separate, sovereign state, yet Israel continues to build, settle, and grow on their land and sell products from there as "Made in Israel."

At this point, Palestine is a ghetto of apartheid. The only real solution is to immediately grant full citizenship and voting rights to the Palestinians so they can be involved in the Israeli political process.

Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is incredibly racist, and has continued to explicitly state that giving voting rights to Arabs would "lead to the destruction of Israel."

edited 18th Mar '16 9:05:06 AM by SolipsistOwl

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#116550: Mar 18th 2016 at 9:03:44 AM

@Fighteer: Hmm...I see your point on Bernie fans now. sad

But I think Solipsist almost has a point. Bill Clinton was friends with Trump. Horrible taste in friends. This goes far beyond mere politics, being friends with a huge dick makes even saints look bad, even if they're not to blame.


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