Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I'm not actually surprised by this, obviously, but it's just a sad, absurd commentary on the state of our system.
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire."we are essentially where we expected to be at this point in the race.”
Wow, I know no campaign would say any differently but it's amazing how every loss is spun as a win and every Clinton victory as not really winning like that weird conservative states argument. I find the latter particularly strange because it's not like the conservative Republican voters in the Southern states are voting for Clinton and if/when Sanders had won of those states, I doubt any of his supporters would make note of their being more conservative.
Edit- I mean I'll eat crow if Sanders does end up carrying a lot of states going forward, but I can't see how objectively he's in a good position now. And I'm kind of expecting that if/when Clinton wins all or most of those states, then Sanders supporters (or at least Solipistic Owl) will try to put some new spin on it to the effect that Sanders could still win if the superdelegates voted for him and/or that Clinton stole the election.
Edit 2- Tl; dr version- If Clinton was in Sanders' position right now, you'd be thinking (rightly) she should probably think about leaving the race. With this in mind, reconsider whether Sanders is actually in a good position.
edited 16th Mar '16 9:27:59 PM by Hodor2
Clinton winning when she's expected to win isn't that big a deal. Of course it's different when Sanders wins. Why else would Michigan have been a historic win if not for the 21-point margin he closed in a week?
The two have different standards. He's constantly exceeding expectations. Will it be enough? Well, they seem to think it will now that we're past all those closed primaries/caucuses and conservative states.
But now we're talking about the merits of hypothetical reactions by supporters to things that didn't happen? That strikes me as more than a little off-track and unproductive.
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.@Things Clinton gets criticism for that other politicians don't even though they also did it: how about "we didn't know" as opposed to "BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN"? Now that I know Sanders pushed for that bill, my opinion of him is lowered.
@Anger double standard: one of the things I personally dislike about Hillary is that she's too soft-spoken and "nice", to the point that she gives me the creeps. More anger and brusqueness from her, commensurate with the strong nature of her policies, would be welcome.
edited 17th Mar '16 12:57:23 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Democracy is a joke, says China – just look at Donald Trump
China having a predictable opinion.
Si Vis Pacem, Para PerkeleWell, like the article itself says, they'd much rather deal with Clinton than Trump. Trump would be an unpredictable and therefore terrible business partner. Their ideal situation is that Clinton ekes out a narrow victory over Trump: thereby proving how close to collapse democracy is while simultaneously keeping the status quo, for now.
@China They are not "proving" anything. Autoritarian regimes like China love to badmouth democracy at every opportunity, as to convince their own citizens to stop thinking naughty thoughts of human rights. Russia loves that too. And North Fucking Korea.
They'll always find something to cherry pick, Trump or no Trump.
As for China and Clinton, well... They don't like her because she has a long history of "Tough on China" rhetoric.
They might not exactly shit bricks if she's president, but I suspect some officials would prefer Trump, as an easier to deal with dumbass. Part of me that hates dictatorships getting away with their villany wants to support her on this one, but the other part of me remembers how worthless and ineffectual the similar "Tough on Russia" rhetoric is and how the acts assosiating with it fail to damage anyone but citizens like me.
What the Clinton campaign will of course not mention is how or why he pushed it.
Mind you, it's not entirely excusable, but he didn't exactly push it out of malice, racism, or obliviousness to its consequences. Sanders's entire schtick as a legistrator is stealthily amending bills with things he wants, and that's what he's been doing with that one. Laws, that happen to crack down on rape and domestic abuse. He warned against mass incarcerations too, right there in 1994, video evidence in the link.
So in short, not exactly his best move and I can see lowered opinions, but it's nowhere near as bad as Clinton's inflammatory racist "super predators" push. And to say that the First Lady has no political power, like that article claimed, is just disingenious. But then, there is nothing I can say that debunks that textbook Clinton campaign drivel better than the perfect response from a feminist I quoted a couple pages back, so I'm so done.
Word. I don't get why people think Clinton is actually angry at all. She's too soft, especially for the "Iron Lady" image getting projected at her by her supporters and in some way, detractors too. Granted, Sanders isn't exactly Lelouch either when it comes to aggression, but his projected image is different, so it doesn't matter. I feel more anger in Elizabeth Warren than in both of them.
Relevant:
edited 17th Mar '16 2:01:24 AM by Luminosity
That's a very strange comparison.
A hilarious one.
The more I think about it...
OMG.
Somebody please put speeches from this campaign to Code Geass soundtracks!
Sanders gets "Love is Justice"
Jeb gets "Noblesse Oblige"
Clinton gets "Feeling Ambivalent"
Trump, of course, gets "Hail Britannia!"
President TRUMP, however, gets "Final Catastrophe"
That piece is reserved to a very specific type of tragic Magnificent Bastard, and we don't have anyone like that in this race. Winston Churchill is the closest real-life figure I can think of. Maybe Che Guevara, too.
I mean, just listen to it. It's Too Awesome to Use.
Unless you mean another entirely different kind of Master, in which case "The Sound of Drums" fits Trump the best.
edited 17th Mar '16 3:41:52 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.@Septimus: At this point, it is hard to see either Kasich or Cruz dropping out before the Republican convention. The reason is that each imagines himself being the potential beneficiary of a brokered convention should Trump fail to secure a majority of delegates. Each represents a specific demographic: Cruz gets the evangelicals (except when he doesn't) and Kasich gets the "moderates" (even though he isn't). Rubio was a fifth wheel in this unwieldy contraption, so his bowing out can, in theory, help solidify Cruz's or Kasich's position and possibly deny Trump that majority.
edited 17th Mar '16 6:35:27 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The whole primary was a gigantic circus from the beginning, really.
Really, if Drumpf wins the primary but loses the general (which will inevitably happen if nominated), the base and the establishment will start blaming each other and the GOP will collapse. If the establishment actually manages to cheat Drumpf out of the nomination, he will go third party, destroy the nominee's chances of being elected, and the GOP will collapse.
Really, the chances of the GOP falling apart thanks to Trump are pretty high.
Because they have been actively, publicly discussing how to prevent Trump from winning for months. Of course we know it's not a net gain for them, but they aren't living in the same world as everyone else.
edited 17th Mar '16 6:29:55 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"They are terrified of Trump taking the GOP in a direction they don't want (partly for ideological reasons and also because they know Trump would lead the party to political irrelevancy), and many establishment figures are willing to do whatever it takes to stop him. They're still under the delusion that the base aren't completely sick of being taken advantage of and lied to.
edited 17th Mar '16 6:35:36 AM by Cronosonic

Bernie Sanders Team Says It Still Has Path Forward After Losses
“We are literally about halfway through,” Mr. Weaver said. “Clearly the Clinton campaign has run up a bit of a lead in the first half of it, but the second half is much more favorable to Senator Sanders in terms of the calendar, in terms of the geography, in terms of the spacing of the states.”
Mr. Weaver added that campaign advisers still see a path forward. “What our calculation shows is that we can in fact pass the secretary in pledged delegates,” he said. “We are feeling very good, and we are essentially where we expected to be at this point in the race.”
According to NPR's legal correspondent Nina Totenberg, Republicans offered Merrick Garland to President Obama for his SCOTUS nomination in case the Democratic candidate wins:
https://twitter.com/nprmontagne/status/710142777569492993
edited 16th Mar '16 8:54:42 PM by SolipsistOwl