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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116176: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:22:50 PM

I honestly cannot say whether Clinton or Trump would make a worse president, so I would rather abstain my vote than make a moral compromise.

I'd rather wait two years for the progressive wing to retake Congress in the '18 midterms, then for Sanders to endorse Keith Ellison as his successor in '20 to either primary President Clinton or challenge President Trump.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:26:10 PM by SolipsistOwl

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116177: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:23:48 PM

Again, that you think Clinton and Trump are on equal standing is very telling.

Oh really when?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#116178: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:25:26 PM

Yes, because Clinton and her supporters have assaulted and threatened minorities, are part of giant hate groups, have formed an armed militia, and want to ban muslims from the country.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116179: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:25:40 PM

The only thing we know about either of them is that they'll lie, say, or do anything to win. Can you take either of them at face-value? At least Sanders is a known quantity due to his record.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#116180: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:26:17 PM

Sanders is a dove. He favors diplomacy. He doesn't randomly antagonize nations. His understanding of Putin isn't perfect either and I can't say him leaving us alone is a certainty, but I trust him to do that much more than someone with a long history of warhawkery.

Sanders is also naïve. He makes a lot of grandiose promises but doesn't really understand politics. We've already seen what happens when a President who's all about sidestepping the game gets elected, because we have Obama.

When Obama was campaigning, he liked to talk about the spying. Why do we need the spying, we should get rid of the spying, what good is the spying possibly doing? Then he got elected and something happened. He stepped into office, he became privy to Presidential confidential information, he got a first-hand look at everything that the common American doesn't.

And then he immediately flipped around and started pushing for more spying, because even though he wasn't a politician by nature, something changed his mind when the time came to turn promises into realities. His critics would say it was because he was lying all along or something, but the more probable scenario is that it's easy to talk about what the President should do when you don't have to worry about the logistics thereof, but the world looks very different once you're sitting in that chair.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:28:18 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116181: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:28:16 PM

[up][up] There is one thing we know about each that you're not accounting for, though. Hillary, despite being perceived as out-of-touch and oftentimes malevolent, is a very, very smart woman, with tons of experience in politics.

Donald Trump is an egomaniac, a bully, a puffed-up pig carcass that gained sentience. He doesn't know shit about politics.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#116182: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:28:42 PM

Nice guys finish last in politics. Just look at Carter.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#116183: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:29:18 PM

The hatred of Clinton has reached hysterical levels. I had people on my school ranting about how she's a liar and how they'd rather vote for Trump. My journalism teacher is of the opinion that the belief in Clinton's inevitability and corruption will lead to low Dem turnout, and a Trump victory. And as for the Honduran coup, the Obama administration denounced that so I doubt Clinton had anything to do with it. I remember it because I heard the President was tossed out of the country in his pajamas, and because I couldn't understand how Obama was not supporting the overthrow of a US enemy, and living in a Republican household, and being to young to have my own views at the time, I concluded he was a traitor. I had a very strange childhood indeed.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116184: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:29:37 PM

Sanders is also naïve. He makes a lot of grandiose promises but doesn't really understand politics.

As long as it keeps sanctions out of my shores, I don't care how naive he is.

On Obama, I think the simpler explanation is that he just lied about the spying to get elected. He's not exactly the world's most honest man.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116185: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:32:19 PM

"Political experience" doesn't amount to much if it means more backroom deals with Republicans over trade deals and cutting Social Security.

Margaret Thatcher had "experience." So did Sarah Palin. John Mc Cain has "experience."

What does that even mean in terms of what I'm looking for in a candidate or what they can offer the American people?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116186: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:33:30 PM

When you're equating Clinton to fucking TRUMP of all people, I have trouble thinking that anything you say has credibility, Solipsist. It's fucking Trump, who encourages his supporters to commit violence against protesters and engages in dick comparisons. And Clinton, who knows how to behave like an adult in public. So yeah, how the fuck are we supposed to think you're arguing in anything resembling good faith here?

"Experience" in most cases means "has demonstrated a certain level of competency over a certain amount of time" so basically that's what you should be looking for. It's a neutral value, really, and you're often looking for experience in a specific thing.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:35:15 PM by AceofSpades

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#116187: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:34:20 PM

[up][up]

What does that even mean in terms of what I'm looking for in a candidate or what they can offer the American people?

Well, what are you looking for? And am I right in in the feeling that not even Sanders ticks all your boxes?

edited 16th Mar '16 12:34:33 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#116188: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:34:21 PM

[up][up][up][up] Thatcher I don't know about, Palin had next to no experience, a point she was attacked on, and Mc Cain could have been a great President, and was right on Syria.

@Owl: Maybe you are just angry and don't really mean all this,I have done this many times and am in no position to judge you. But if you really are thinking of voting for Trump, than please don't. By doing so you will be confirming what Clinton says about Sanders supporters is true, in addition to condemning your fellow citizens to rule under Dumf for the next 4 years. Do what Bernie will almost certainly tell you to do, unless he can't pull of a miracle of course, and vote for Clinton. Or just stay home.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:37:33 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116189: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:34:52 PM

You missed the point of half of my post. Clinton is smart; she is calculating; she is careful. Trump is a bull in a china shop; he could stumble into the Oval Office hungover and nuke something. That you think that the two of them are anywhere near the same level of danger is laughable.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116190: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:36:50 PM

On the one hand, a litigious serial liar who encourages violence, creates his own armed mob, has his cronies assault protesters and advocating for the mass deportation of innocent people based solely on the fact that they're brown, a kind of purely, uniquely American counterpart (in all its glorification of hammy 'self made' patriarchs) to 'soft dictators' like Putin and Erdogan.

On the other hand, a woman who's maybe a bit too eager to get a controversial trade agreement passed and who (so far) has been playing the way political games work in the United States.

Yes, I can absolutely see the validity of the comparison.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#116191: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:36:56 PM

When you're insisting that there's no difference between Clinton and Trump, you've officially lost touch with reality. Even if you think Clinton is terrible, to compare her to Trump is nuts.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116192: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:37:34 PM

Clinton refuses to denounce the death penalty. She believes the State should have power over life and death.

As far as I'm concerned, that is just as violent rhetoric and message as anything Trump has said.

Especially since Saudi Arabia—one of our closest Mid-East allies—defends their crucifixions of underage poets because "Hey, the U.S. does it!"

Oh, and both Trump and Clinton are honored speakers at AIPAC soon! That should tell you something.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:38:54 PM by SolipsistOwl

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116193: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:39:54 PM

And Trump and Clinton-here's the smoking gun-are both blond! Food for thought, isn't it?

You can't take superficial similarities and blow them out of proportion.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116194: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:40:06 PM

Really? Supporting the death penalty is equal to assembling your own SS unit, promising to turn the ICE into the Gestapo, promising to ban all Muslim travel in and out of country even if they're American citizens, to put refugees into ghettos, to deport people based on their skin color, and commanding your supporters to seek and harm political opponent's supporters?

The fuck is wrong with you?

Oh really when?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#116195: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:40:49 PM

@Solipist Owl- AIPAC invited all three front runners- Trump, Clinton, and Sanders. I don't know if Sanders refused to attend (and wouldn't really blame him if he did), but don't be disingenuous.

edited 16th Mar '16 12:41:14 PM by Hodor2

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116197: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:41:35 PM

And if you compare the foreign policy of Clinton and Cruz, they are nowhere near as similar as you're trying to insinuate.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#116198: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:42:55 PM

Sanders may still win. In short, the worst, most conservative states are behind him, and lots of folks intend to vote for him on the coming states. Plus, Sanders shows electability, since independent voters chose him overwhelmingly over Clinton.

Is HRC secretly an Underwood? Don't know, don't care. But she's a war hawk, and she likes designating enemies and threats. As a Middle Eastern guy, I don't like US war hawks.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116199: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:42:58 PM

Oh, is the firm giving out different advice to different candidates?

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116200: Mar 16th 2016 at 12:44:10 PM

No, but the candidates are doing very different things with that advice. Clinton, "war hawk" or not, is not about to figure out whether sand glows.


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