TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#116126: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:29:12 AM

You keep not understanding me at all and it's frankly tiring. I do not want her to try dealing with Putin for precisely this reason. This is exactly why I favor Sanders dove strategy. Am I being clear now?
Quite frankly, it's not the US president's job to be concerned for the welfare of Russian citizens. I understand your point of view in preferring a US president that would be better for you, but trying to convince Americans that they should vote based on that isn't going to be very persuasive.

Putin has been doing some absolutely unacceptable shit on the world stage, and if it takes economic sanctions that have negative effects on the Russian population to get him to stop, then that sucks for the Russians, but blame Putin, not the rest of the world for trying to stop him.

(and some like TYT who I have always loathed)
Oh good, I'm not the only left-leaning person in America who hates the Young Turks.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:31:19 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116127: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:30:44 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116128: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:31:33 AM

[up][up][up] No, you didn't. But the title was phrased...oddly. Suggestively.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:31:44 AM by ILoveDogs

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#116129: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:32:33 AM

[up][up]You're still missing the point. Putin is doing bad things. Bad things are happening to you as a result of this. Don't blame us for that, blame Putin, because if he wasn't doing bad things, then bad things wouldn't be happening to you.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:33:11 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116130: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:33:26 AM

It's basically also asking us to ignore Putin's generally negative effect on the citizens of other countries, which is its own kind of myopia. I get focusing on your own problems first, we all do that, but pointing out things that are affecting you as if other people aren't having problems because of your leader is a bit hypocritical. And Putin has spent five years trying to start shit with everyone. Whoever's in charge of the US next time he pulls something is going to have to have some kind of response, and Sanders being the president is no kind of guarantee there won't be a militaristic response.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116131: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:33:31 AM

Secretary of State Clinton legitimized and facilitated a military coup in Honduras. A civil rights activist blamed Clinton for allowing the political climate to get so bad.

Said civil rights activist was then murdered by the Honduras government. The article title didn't insinuate anything further than that; nor did I by posting it.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:38:43 AM by SolipsistOwl

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116132: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:34:39 AM

The thing is, those sanctions just reinforce Putin's position that The West is some eternal enemy that must be fought.

If we play nice with him and Russian citizens then the rhetoric he built his entire regime on falls apart. The Russians get all the benefits of a friendly economic and cultural relationship with us and we don't have to fight a bunch of proxy wars that frankly we probably can't win.

Putin wants us to fight him in proxy wars and as an enemy. He can keep that up and keep winning like he has in Syria and Crimea forever, we can't.

[up]And that's a load of crap. Why post it with your usual anti Clinton attitude if you didn't mean to insinuate anything?

edited 16th Mar '16 11:37:15 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#116133: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:36:07 AM

I'm inclined to say that yes, you actually were, given your general opinions about Clinton and the fact that you post the worst sounding things you can about her. Just saying that wasn't your intent doesn't mean that it wasn't your intent, or that it's not the impression you constantly give off in this conversation.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#116134: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:36:16 AM

@Jovian

I can't stand TYT. There's a few reasons for that, starting with their hilariously biased reporting—seriously, MSNBC isn't the liberal Fox, they are—and ending with that godawful, offensive name. Enver, Cemal, Talaat and their cohorts killed at least half a million Armenians, and probably a whole lot more. In many ways, they were the forerunners of later fascist movements like Mussolini's and Hitler's. To name your supposedly liberal progressive group after them...no. Just no.

I've seen Cenk try and defend the name by saying "it has other meanings" but that's such a load of garbage. Even if we were left-leaning nativists I wouldn't call my party the National Socialists, and the Young Turk name is near as bad.

@Solipist Owl

"Activist speaks out against Clinton shortly before being murdered"...yeah, you in no way, shape, or form intended that to a smear. Right.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:38:16 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#116135: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:41:17 AM

This is weird. All I hear is how Ace Attorney is inaccurate in depicting the system(justfiable because it wasn't meant to have an American system to begin with), but more and more accuracies pop up.

Accidentally Accurate, mind you. In Ace Attorney, you actually go to trial. In the American system, power rests with the prosecutor because almost nobody ever goes to trial - if they do, power devolves on the jury and the judge, but the prosecutor controls plea bargaining, and the system and the courtroom workgroup are set up to encourage plea deals.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116136: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:43:11 AM

The takeaway should be that the State Department pretended to care about the Honduran people and their constitutional government, but secretly lobbied to solidify the military coup.

That military coup led to a repressive government that has assassinated civil rights leaders, protesters, and unionists. It's not a stretch of reason for one of those affected people to recognize Clinton caused the situation.

During Honduras Crisis, Clinton Suggested Back Channel With Lobbyist Lanny Davis

Rather than seeing this as a failure, the Clinton emails released last week further confirm that the State Department had sought the permanent ouster of Zelaya all along.

State Department officials bucked the demands of most Latin American countries and rushed to recognize the election as “free, fair and transparent.”

In an email titled “Notes from the Peanut Gallery,” Thomas Shannon, the lead State Department negotiator for the Honduras talks, gushed over the election results in a message that was sent to Secretary Clinton.

“The turnout (probably a record) and the clear rejection of the Liberal Party shows our approach was the right one,” wrote Shannon, who recommended that the U.S. should “congratulate the Honduran people” and “connect today’s vote to the deep democratic vocation of the Honduran people.” Shannon, then the assistant secretary of state for Western hemisphere affairs, expressed gratitude that Zelaya was out of power, referring to the ousted president as a “failed” leader.

The Shannon emails “show what we knew all along: the U.S. wanted the elections to solidify the changes wrought by the coup,” said Dan Beeton, international communications director at the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

It was Shannon, notably, who signed the accord to bring Zelaya back to Honduras, and then shocked Latin American leaders by suggesting on CNN days later that the U.S. would recognize the results of the election even if Zelaya was not restored.

Despite claims to media outlets that they were working to restore the democratically elected Honduran government, the U.S. made other efforts to ensure the coup government’s grip on power. In October 2009, the United States blocked a resolution from the Organization of American States requiring Zelaya’s return as a precondition for elections. The U.S. also failed to officially determine that a “military coup” occured, and did not cut off aid to Honduras as is required by law following a coup.

I'm not calling Clinton a murderer, but I am suggesting she doesn't care about human life. Her foreign policy record reflects that.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:45:21 AM by SolipsistOwl

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#116137: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:43:57 AM

It's basically also asking us to ignore Putin's generally negative effect on the citizens of other countries, which is its own kind of myopia.

Your methods on dealing with him have done nothing to stop him, while I am the collateral damage. Yet Clinton will try again. And fail. And forgive me if I'm not happy to deal with that all over again.

You're still missing the point. Putin is doing bad things. Bad things are happening to you as a result of this. Don't blame us for that, blame Putin, because if he wasn't doing bad things, then bad things wouldn't be happening to you.

By your logic, the police officer who kills a criminal's hostage is not responsible for anything. After all, it's the crminal who took them hostage and police misconduct is totally not a thing. You can be and you are responsible for your failed and disastrous attempts at solving something you actually set out to solve. That doesn't absolve the criminal. But the criminal's fault does not absolve yours either.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:49:26 AM by Luminosity

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116138: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:47:05 AM

[up][up] You're doing that thing again where you pretend that you're just posting the links when every single last link you post says the same thing, boiled down to its essence (that is, "Clinton is a shitlord").

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#116139: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:48:25 AM

If memory serves (I was only 15 back then) the Honduran crisis was started by the president trying to violate the constitution in a rather blatant way. So I'd say Clinton's actions there were justifiable.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116140: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:48:43 AM

[up]President Zelaya was pushing a poll to gauge support for a referendum to determine whether to change term limit laws. The Honduran Supreme Court then ordered the military to arrest him. It was a coup based off ridiculous pretenses.

Am I hearing this right? Are people telling me to not say anything if I can't say anything nice?

This is a forum for discussion of politics. I will continue to share the facts. It's not my problem if that offends anyone. You're more than welcome to respond or provide rebuttal.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:51:30 AM by SolipsistOwl

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116141: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:50:11 AM

No it's just that your really bizarre and one track hatred of Clinton is getting a bit old.

Got anything else to discuss?

Oh really when?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116142: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:52:21 AM

I don't know how many times I have to point out that I post more than just Clinton/Sanders articles, but people rarely ever respond to those. You're the one choosing to respond to Clinton topics.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#116143: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:53:10 AM

[up][up][up]Trusting anything you post becomes pretty hard when everything you post boils down to "Clinton is a monster". When someone else references the business in Honduras, then I'll look at it.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:53:22 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#116144: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:53:23 AM

@Ambar: The term "Young Turks" predates that news group, as it was used politically as far back as the 1920s. While you can argue that it's a bad name, be aware that they were FAR from the first people to use it. (Winston Churchill himself used it at one point, if I recall.)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116145: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:53:54 AM

[up][up][up]Like what?

edited 16th Mar '16 11:54:37 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#116146: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:54:17 AM

You post more than just Clinton/Sanders articles in the same way that a Fox News commentator might begrudgingly, painfully, agonizingly bite his tongue when talking about Obama. When you post one normal article followed by ten hysterical anti-Clinton articles, there is a pattern.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#116147: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:55:01 AM

[up]x4 I shared two articles on the Honduran coup. If that's not enough information for you to do further research, then by all means continue to dismiss the facts—which include Clinton and her staff's direct E-mails. Unless those are biased?

[up]"Hysterical"

Yes. Simply providing links and quotes is "hysterical." I feel like that's not really a good way to approach someone you disagree with.

edited 16th Mar '16 11:57:33 AM by SolipsistOwl

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#116148: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:56:35 AM

Come on man, now you're just being disingenuous

Oh really when?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#116149: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:56:39 AM

@ Luminosity: What do you want the US (and the wider West in general) to do when it comes to Russia?

edited 16th Mar '16 11:56:48 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#116150: Mar 16th 2016 at 11:56:48 AM

By your logic, the police officer who kills a criminal's hostage is not responsible for anything.
Putin isn't holding you hostage, he's your president. When he makes policy that has negative consequences for Russia, that's his own damn fault, not ours for pushing back against him.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Total posts: 417,856
Top