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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Shawnsummer7 Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#115651: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:31:34 PM

[up][up][up][up] I'm inclined to agree with you here, cheering the death of anyone is a pretty bad thing to do. It's okay to not really feel anything about it because you didn't care for the person much, but if you imply that you'd be happy if someone died that's too far, even if Trump's a generally unpleasant person.

edited 13th Mar '16 5:32:22 PM by Shawnsummer7

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115652: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:32:12 PM

[up]X5 When you call for the mass murder of children and other non-combatants (which Trump has done) you cross the line into a level of evil where being more or less evil then others in that category is rather irrelevant.

Now I can understand your point about the sanctity of human life, I remember the same argument being made when Bin-Laden was killed, ite a valid argument.

Honestly I think Jack's question is nonsense, it makes as much sense as me going "if fish started to swim in air, would you eat them?"

[up][up] He shouldn't be dismissed, but let's not pretend that (baring him being dismissed and given a huge advantage) he's going to win. A hypothetical Trump presidency is not something that can happen unless the US democracy is suspended, literal vote buying happen, mind control is used or massive voter suppression and vote rigging ocures.

Now all of thouse are real risks that need to be guarded against, the current attempt at a facist takeover of the US cannot be ignored, but it shouldn't be treated as something that's likely to succeed via the ballot box.

edited 13th Mar '16 5:38:16 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#115653: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:32:42 PM

The President couldn't commit genocide

But if Trump being elected causes total anarchy, civil war, widespread starvation, cannibalism, and ubiquitous roving gangs of murderous thugs, causing a radical loss in US population and ultimately total civilization collapse?

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#115654: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:34:03 PM

What do Florida's senior citizens want. These old folks will be the key to wining the state.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#115655: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:34:08 PM

While that's so false, considering even Bernie himself doesn't ignore them, there's something even funnier - I'm yet to hear a Clinton voter address any of the problems(say, for instance, harrassment on their part) in their camp.

Coincidentally, it took a while for me to dig up that link. I suspect if it was about Bernie voters, I would not have nearly as much trouble finding it. Hmm...

Well, here you go: As someone who would vote for Clinton in the general without a second thought, any sort of harassment from Clinton voters to Bernie voters is Not OK.

Satisfactory?

Troper_Walrus Since: Sep, 2015
#115656: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:34:27 PM

@Cassidy The Devil

That's not genocide. That's everybody flipping out at the same time. Genocide is structured. That would be anarchy. Not so much the Holocaust, more like The Purge.

EDIT: @Silasw

Also, calling for the death of noncombatants is awful, but it doesn't make you as bad as warlords, dictators, or terrorists. It's horrible, but in the wake of 9/11, how many have become as evil as totalitarian dictators, from wishes or vows made in anger?

edited 13th Mar '16 5:42:18 PM by Troper_Walrus

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#115657: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:36:15 PM

If there's a relevant number of Sanders supporters who would defect to Trump in a general election, that's an argument against Clinton's viability in the general. If there are however only a relative few who would actually vote for a bigoted, viciously xenophobic jackass over another Clinton, then they're a noisy sideshow and basically irrelevant.

edited 13th Mar '16 5:37:59 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115658: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:37:49 PM

I've yet to see any evidence of any actual Sander's voters who would actually defect to Trump, just a lot of talk about hypotheticals.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#115659: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:39:12 PM

Well, here you go: As someone who would vote for Clinton in the general without a second thought, any sort of harassment from Clinton voters to Bernie voters is Not OK. Satisfactory?

While it's a good start, I doubt I'm going to hear this every few page, with a statement from Clinton herself calling out her bigoted supporters the same way Sanders has done for his. It's probably not possible to tip the scale back at this point.

@Walrus Why is the Purge taken seriously as political satire, I will never understand...

edited 13th Mar '16 5:39:32 PM by Luminosity

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#115660: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:45:32 PM

OK. I feel like I've done a lot to antagonize you over the past few pages, so I guess I ought to clear the air:

If Bernie won the presidency, I would be thrilled to bits. I would be dancing in the street and hugging people. I don't hate him, and if he gets through I will vote for him intensely.

I'm simply balking at all of the talk about Clinton in the primaries, because I feel like it would damage her against Trump. And the reason why I would vote for her isn't simply because she's Not Trump-that's an oversimplification of saying that she is incredibly qualified and largely reasonable. She has some shitty supporters, like everyone does, and though she hasn't publicly denounced them (like Bernie), she hasn't egged them on (like, oh let's say...)

So, that's my stance on things. Hope it's OK.

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#115661: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:54:54 PM

I'm simply balking at all of the talk about Clinton in the primaries, because I feel like it would damage her against Trump.

Here's the thing, I don't. In fact, I believe Trump has indirectly helped her immensely. Stricly fiscal conservatives, conservative-leaning minorites who disagree with Sanders on economics, other people who would have voted for a moderate Republican, had one actually ran in this primary, vote Clinton. She wouldn't have this vote if not for Trump and the rest of the Republican party thourougly alienating anyone who doesn't feel like being a random racist.

Which is among many reasons why I don't buy attempts to divert criticism of her into a Republican scare. Clinton would not be doing as well as she does now if not for Trump sinking his own party in.

It's kind or ironic that I don't fear for her electability nearly as much as I've seen her supporters doing.

edited 13th Mar '16 5:57:37 PM by Luminosity

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#115662: Mar 13th 2016 at 5:59:05 PM

But how many people are going to stay home thinking that that's the case? And what would you do?

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#115663: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:00:56 PM

But how many people are going to stay home thinking that that's the case? And what would you do?

What would I do? I'm Russian, I can't vote in American elections, so I'd probably make pancakes or drink... soda pops.

Besides, there are probably just as many people who would have stayed home if Clinton lost the nomination. Primarily the ones I mentioned.

edited 13th Mar '16 6:01:16 PM by Luminosity

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115664: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:01:52 PM

Aw man, now I want pancakes.

Oh really when?
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#115665: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:04:01 PM

[up] Me too. sad

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#115666: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:09:24 PM

[up]

Part of it is because of various Republican tactics since the '90s smearing her (and Bill) as inherently untrustworthy. And she hasn't done herself many favors during her debates with Sanders, where she twists the truth of some of his positions in order to make him look bad, forgetting that this is the Age of Information - finding the truth of the matter is easier than ever (even if you have to sift for it).

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#115667: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:13:18 PM

  1. Ilovedogs: if you're worrying about Republican attempts to ruin Clinton's credibility, they've kind of shot themselves in the foot with their zealousness over the issue. (Although apparently not with my brother but he's the kind of guy to watch one show and think he knows everything and apparently that Sanders was Ralph Nader of all people.)

So at this point, I don't think the Republican attempts to discredit her have actually done that much damage, or that they could do anything more than they already have. So until the general I don't think we need to worry about anything, where she'll probably eviscerate anyone who tries to pull that on her. Unless Sanders manages to miracle himself the nomination, at which point it'd be moot anyway.

I'm just.... ooogh I think if Trump gets the nomination I'm just going to stop paying attention because either Democratic option is worlds better and I just don't want to listen to any more of his crap than I already have.

[up] Eeeh, I don't know if that's actually had much change that we're not already seeing, though. People who have reason to support Clinton are probably not going to be much swayed by whatever they find on the internet, and vice versa.

edited 13th Mar '16 6:14:47 PM by AceofSpades

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#115668: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:35:52 PM

I think part of Trump's success is owed to his ability to make most political debates "Him vs. Someone Else". For example, instead of hearing "This person vs. that person" you hear "Trump vs. everyone else".

Leviticus 19:34
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#115669: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:40:41 PM

Well, he's always been an excellent self promoter. It's how he's been able to lose three fortunes in a life time. That the media basically handed him free air time thinking he was a temporary joke has also helped his cause.

But seriously, after the primaries are done you guys might see me for a while. I'm quite frankly getting mentally exhausted by all this.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#115670: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:42:15 PM

@Troper_Walrus: why is it that people like you must constantly use the "not as bad as..." argument? Intentionally causing civilian deaths and specifically wiping out families is wrong and disgusting, and not just that, but it is as bad as crashing a plane into a filled skyscraper and placing people in extermination camps. Trump is worse than a warlord because unlike them, there is an actual chance that he can be elected through the popular vote and then implement his ideas as the leader of a nation.

Long story short: I do NOT want to see the U.S. stoop to the level of the terrorists we are fighting, and this "not as bad as..." fallacy is an attempt to excuse it.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#115671: Mar 13th 2016 at 6:42:54 PM

BTW Sanders and Clinton are doing a town hall event in Ohio. In case anyone is interested.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#115672: Mar 13th 2016 at 9:04:43 PM

So at this point, I don't think the Republican attempts to discredit her have actually done that much damage, or that they could do anything more than they already have. So until the general I don't think we need to worry about anything, where she'll probably eviscerate anyone who tries to pull that on her. Unless Sanders manages to miracle himself the nomination, at which point it'd be moot anyway.
I think Hillary's more likely to discredit herself than any Republican, with I dunno, going

Clinton: 'We're Going to Put a Lot of Coal Miners and Coal Companies Out of Business' in the midst of Ohio, which is one of the states that still has coal jobs still.

This is like saying to someone in Michigan "We're going to get rid of the Auto Jobs in Detroit!".

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#115673: Mar 13th 2016 at 9:33:08 PM

This is like saying to someone in Michigan "We're going to get rid of the Auto Jobs in Detroit!".

Sanders did that and he seems to be doing okay. wink

edited 13th Mar '16 9:33:19 PM by Hodor2

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#115674: Mar 13th 2016 at 9:34:53 PM

Am I wrong in assuming the point is something along the lines of "Coal is dying, I'm going to help replace it with different, less dangerous, better paying industries" or something? Like, that's how I'd take that on instinct.

edited 13th Mar '16 9:51:53 PM by LSBK

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#115675: Mar 13th 2016 at 9:49:25 PM

Probably, but it's soundbitable into:

"Hillary Clinton hates coal miners and laughs at their suffering."


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