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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115301: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:49:22 PM

[up]X3 You're right, Jordan was the second one, after Egypt.

[up] Oil and general strategic interests. Turkey isn't about oil it's about Russia's southern flank, Egypt is about Suez and keeping Israel safe, Saudi Arabia is about both oil and containing Iran.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:54:29 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#115302: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:53:25 PM

Weren't the Camp David Accords really criticized for being done without Israel's consent?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115303: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:56:54 PM

They were signed by the Israeli PM, so I don't see how they could have been criticised for that. Also if we're moving away from talking about the US role we may need to switch topics.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#115304: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:57:31 PM

Somalia, Djibouti and Mauritania are also sometimes considered parts of the Middle East. For those, basically in order: anarchic hellhole, African North Korea, and slaver country.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115305: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:02:25 PM

So we're kind of cool with Pakistan, right? Because I always thought we were cooler with India after the Cold War.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#115306: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:04:14 PM

One thing that's really in the news here in Canada is Prime Minister Trudeau visiting the White House today, the first visit of this type in 19 years, which people are saying indicates a better relationship between the US and Canada.

If any of the Republicans get in, that would probably go straight down the toilet. Because of that, a majority of Canadians want a Democrat win. (Well, except for Alberta. But Alberta isn't called "Canada's Texas" for nothing. It's an increasingly accurate label.)

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115307: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:09:21 PM

We're largely cool with India but they get a lot of military support from the Russians.

Oh really when?
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115308: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:10:17 PM

I'm still confused about whether Russia is still our enemy or not. I feel like Putin hates us, but he's willing to compromise with us too.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115309: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:11:12 PM

[up]X5 They're only considered part of the Middle East by the geographically illiterate (AKA the Bush administration). Though your descriptions do cover them about right.

[up] You compromise with your enemies not your friends.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:12:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#115310: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:12:05 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] US relations with Pakistan are at their low point. During the Cold War we were kind of close, flying U2's out of their territory amongst other things, and we gave them money to aid the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, which they promptly funded into the groups that were both the most fundamentalist, and the most incompetent. Our relations with India were strained for a while. Things started off good in the early Cold War, but went downhill as it become clear India was going to stay non aligned. Things reached their low point under Nixon. Due to Nixon being best bro's with their Military dictator, and needing Pakistan to be a bridge diplomatic between the US and China, we supported them in their 1973 war with India, to the point of sending the USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal to threaten them. Of course the Soviets deployed their Pacific Fleet to drive it off, the Indians won the war, signed a treaty with the Soviets, and Pakistan was pissed at us because we didn't outright go to war for them. But hey Nixon got to strut around in Beijing and make friends with the Commies, so everything turned out alight.

[up][up] More old school style great power compassion than a new Cold War. If Present Clinton shows even a little bit of spine with Putin he'll probably back off. Now China, that's where the real threat is at.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:13:52 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115311: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:12:37 PM

[up][up][up]We're not enemies like we were back in the day but we are still very much opposed. A lot of our goals are mutually exclusive.

But having a big singular enemy like The West or Russia is good for rhetoric so ours and their politicians like to play it up.

Brinksmanship is largely over, we're just doing it for show now. Mostly.

Regardless the Russians are still one of the foremost military forces in the world when it comes to know how and capability so we're always going to be competing with them in that area.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:15:20 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#115312: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:15:03 PM

[up] I would hardly call Putin's annexation of Crimea or his wars in Syria "just for show."

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115313: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:15:10 PM

India doesn't like playing second fiddle the way Pakistan is kinda willing to. Likewise it's doing a lot of military tech domestically and what it doesn't do it tends to either get from the Russians are whoever offers the best price.

Culturally the US and India are closer, Geopolitically it's the US and Pakistan.

Edit: With Russia it basically boils down to things not being Cold War bad but not '90s good. No more messing about in Russia's sphere of influence.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:16:50 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115314: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:15:58 PM

[up][up]Neither of those incidents really involve the West at all and could almost be considered domestic issues. No different the war with the Georgians.

That was in their sphere of influence, we can't do shit there. Never could, never will.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:18:45 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115315: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:19:26 PM

Ukraine and Crimea was related to the west, but more the EU than the US. For details we should probably go to either the Ukraine thread or the Russia thread.

[up] We could in the '90s, when the sphere was bigger, as it once included the Baltics, much of Eastern Europe and the Balkens.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:21:25 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115316: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:20:17 PM

I mean, we seem to have a lot more allies on our side than Russia does, at any rate. Unless I'm wrong on that one.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#115317: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:21:51 PM

[up][up][up][up] And Syria. Also would you consider Syria part of Russia's "sphere of influence?" And in any case we are stuck being in Russia "sphere of influence" since we admired Poland, and especially the Baltic's into Nato, though I'm sure you'd advocate finding some excuse for kicking them out as a gesture of reconciliation to Russia.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:22:09 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115318: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:24:49 PM

It's not about numbers, or even raw strength, a world war isn't going to happen. Plus allies aren't always fully there when you need them or as committed as you'd like.

But yes the US has a greater global alliance network. Not just in the Middle East but also in East Asia (assuming you count China as it's own thing and not part of Russia's network), Europe and South America. Russia however does rather lead when it comes to the former USSR, Central Asia and possible South Asia (as India does lean Russia's way, but it's more it's own these days). The different regions of Africa tend to be unconnected beyond West Africa being French dominated.

[up] Yes Syria is Russia's sphere, spheres of influence are weird and often illogically shaped.

edited 10th Mar '16 5:28:28 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115319: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:30:42 PM

Yes, Syria has almost always been under Russian control.

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115320: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:41:51 PM

Since 1956 when it signed a pact with the Soviet Union.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#115321: Mar 10th 2016 at 5:52:30 PM

Carson endorsing Trump is not surprising. Trump always treated him respectfully, while Rubio and Kasich (understandably) ignored him and Cruz tried to screw him.

I expect Huckabee to do the same whenever he bothers.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#115322: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:05:39 PM

I will bet money Bernie wins Ohio, same rust belt area as Michigan.

As for Obama's foreign policy. What he got wrong on Syria was not not intervening, but promising to intervene and than not following though. By both his actions and statements, he not only accepts and gives off the impression that the US is in decline, but he actively looks forward to that day. As for his olive branches, I honestly think it's to early to tell. Iran may very well keep to the deal, or it may continue to develop it's ballistic missiles free of sanctions, and finally nuclear tip them once the agreement expires in about 15 years. And on North Korea his policy has been basically to burry his head in the sand and do nothing. Ending the embargo and restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba is something that should have been done long ago, as in right after the Berlin wall went down. But overall, the end of the Obama administration sees the world much more violent, and the US's position in it looking much more unstable, than even the darkest days of the Bush years. If it is his fault, or if it's the inevitable result of China and Russia returning to the fray as major competitors, or if it's all Bush's fault, will be for historians to decide. All I can say is it's starting to look a lot like the twilight days of the British empire over here.

edited 10th Mar '16 6:05:59 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#115323: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:08:07 PM

[up][up] Didn't Trump call Carson a child molester?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#115324: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:21:28 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] There is also South Africa (Though they lean more towards the UK than the US) and Oceania (Which has plenty of US, UK and French territories).

edited 10th Mar '16 6:22:49 PM by Bat178

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115325: Mar 10th 2016 at 6:24:17 PM

Jack Iran's ballistic missile program is still sanctioned I believe, there are several non-nuclear related sanctions still on Iran from the US.

As for North Korea, Obama has been trying to pivot towards Asia, so I wouldn't say he'd been head in the sand over the issue, there is simply a limit to what the US can do.

Your twilight days comment doesn't hold by the way, the US doesn't seem to have the reach it used to because it's reaching further then before. The Cold War US wouldn't fight for Hungary, now look where you are.

[up] South Africa is a country not a region, the region is rather unconnected (the Commonwealth being a non-factor). Australia and New Zeeland however are certainly part of the US alliance network.

edited 10th Mar '16 6:29:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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