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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#115276: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:45:25 PM

Keep doing the good work on linking stories, Potatoes, i appreciate it. You and the GOP Primary thread over on Penny Arcade forums (and GAF's off-topic board when i'm really bored at work) are how i keep up with my (clarify: US Political) news.
Glad to help then! I'll try to keep doing it. And you guys keep me on top of stuff I'd miss.

I'm a bit confused then, because I kept on hearing Iran say they still hated us even after the deal. Heck, what exactly were the terms of the deal?
The simple explanation: They'd agree to limit Nuclear production and not use any Nuclear fissionable material for a Nuclear Weapon. In return, various major powers (including the US) would walk back on some of the economic sanctions that have been torpedoing the country's economy.

The thing to understand, is that the current government isn't very friendly to the United States, but they're WAY more willing to play ball with America than Dinner Jacket was, for fears that the continuing economic sanctions would destabilize the country (most likely) and realized taking a less absolute hard-line would serve their long term interests. (The current Supreme Leader is still staunchly anti-US, but he probably realized tanking the country on ideology isn't the way to being remembered as a good leader.)

(Vox) Obama is right: Washington's obsession with "credibility" is wrongheaded and dangerous

Senate Passes Broad Bill to Combat Drug Abuse

It was threatened by Democrats who were angered that Republicans turned away an accompanying measure to provide $500 million in extra funding to pay for what the bill authorizes.

“What good are additional programs if they aren’t adequately funded?” asked Senator Bob Casey, Democrat of Pennsylvania. “We can’t ask medical professionals to do more to treat addiction if they don’t have the resources.” (Mr. Portman and Ms. Ayotte were among five Republicans to vote for the extra funding measure.)

But in the end, the bill was considered too urgent to dismiss over a funding fight.

edited 10th Mar '16 2:49:16 PM by PotatoesRock

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115277: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:47:31 PM

So pretty much Iran is North Korea but actually sane and willing to compromise.

Damn, I can't help but feel this might be the era where the US manages to rebuild some of our bridges with former enemies.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#115278: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:49:24 PM

Iran has had its share of crazy people though just that its government is uh. Kinda weird.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#115279: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:50:37 PM

There is also to keep the other US allies or countries in the Middle East at ease, specially Israel and Saudi Arabia who'd lose a lot of comparative power if Iran ever developed nuclear weaponry and shit the balance of power to their side.

Inter arma enim silent leges
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#115280: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:51:37 PM

Also many of the young in Iran and the affluent members of Iranian society would like to see better relations with the US. (Combination of American soft power and it's just flat out good business to get access to American markets)

edited 10th Mar '16 2:52:53 PM by PotatoesRock

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#115281: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:53:04 PM

Unlike North Korea, Iran's populace is actually visible, and it's increasingly clear how many don't fall in lockstep with the official government ideology.

Ironically, Iran's hardline conservatives seemingly dominate the country in a way that should make Republicans jealous.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#115282: Mar 10th 2016 at 2:56:06 PM

Yeah as mentioned above, Iran's leaders can be crazy powerful and crazy...well. Crazy. But their people are not as repressed as Best Korea's so they actually get a say and to refuse U.S trade commodities in downright suicidal for a political party if they appeal to a base that is not completely ignorant

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#115283: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:17:58 PM

[up][up]Didn't the Iranian hardliners just hace a huge loss in the elections a few weeks ago?

edited 10th Mar '16 3:18:29 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#115284: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:30:39 PM

Yes, moderates won a majority in the recent Iran elections.

That doesn't mean the nation will democratize in a day—many political experts suspect they cannot get away from the intertwined authoritarianism, theocracy, and regional instability without another revolution.

So, reform will be slow until a more liberal leader can be elected, and even then he may only be marginally moreso. It's a process. Great Britain took awhile to get its parliament more powerful than the monarch.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#115285: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:32:21 PM

None of that matters. Its good for the Iranians, but in terms of national interests, Iran would not behave much differently than it is now if it were under a non-theocracy.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115286: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:36:50 PM

Iran is also moderately democratic by the region's standards (low bar I know). It has a fair amount of power out of the hands of elected officials but the president and parliament do have some real power and the democratic checks and balances on the president are solid.

Iran isn't North Korea, Iran actually has popular support for the goverment, a functioning economy and a rich history. Also Iran has good reasons to hate/fear the US, what with it (and the UK) have installed a dictatorship during the Cold War so that BP could keep Iran's oil. A dictatorship so bad that pretty much everyone agrees that it being removed was a good thing.

That's how the entire nuclear thing got started, Iran overthrew the dictatorship and went hard into anti-US Theocracy, the backlash against the US was huge (the embassy hostage situation) and the US struck back. Since then the US and Iran pretty much kept fucking with each other out of spite (including the US once shooting down a plane full of civilians), with both sides holding blame.

The nuclear issue was pretty much initially made up by the US so it could have an excuse to try and overthrow the Iranian regime. Thing is the US kept at the idea for so long that the Iranian goverment started considering actually developing a nuclear program.

Thing is by the time Iran was actually looking like it might develop a nuke program it was post-Iraq and nobody wanted another war. So sanctions were put in place, the international community joined in and eventually Iran cracked, a new president was elected and the current deal was made.

Edit: Oh and someone mentioned NATO and its name, that has real world effects. NATO can't be called into non-North Atlantic conflicts. An attack on a NATO member south of the Tropics of Cancer doesn't count as an attack on all of NATO.

edited 10th Mar '16 3:40:28 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115287: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:44:42 PM

I was meaning to ask, speaking of the Middle East: how exactly has the US managed to balance their alliance with Saudi Arabia and Israel? I can't imagine it being easy.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115288: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:46:41 PM

Remind the two of them that they only exist because we pay for their entire military and tell them to get along.

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#115289: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:47:35 PM

Saudia is much more interested in their oil money. Remember that the "drive Israel into the sea" mindset has been nurtured for distraction reasons.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#115290: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:55:16 PM

Is North Carolina Ground Zero For Election Law Battles?

Speaking as someone who lives there: Yes. Yes, we are. Fuck this state legislature for literally gerrymandering themselves into a supermajority, among other things, and thank goodness these lawsuits are finally proceeding.

edited 10th Mar '16 3:56:09 PM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115291: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:55:30 PM

So how exactly are our relations with certain other countries in the Middle East? I know we've managed to fuck up Iraq and Afghanistan, and Syria is kind of in a civil war right now, but what about everyone else in there?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#115292: Mar 10th 2016 at 3:56:52 PM

[up][up]Yay, we're relevant. In a horrible way but yay, we're in the news.

Oh really when?
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#115294: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:11:12 PM

The US has balanced its Middle East alliances with lots of bribery/military aid.

I'll give you a quick run down of the basic region (though what counts as part of the Middle East varies).

  • Turkey: Ally and NATO member (currently being a pain in the bum over several issues).
  • Syria: in civil war and ruled by a Russian ally.
  • Iraq: US created mess that still leans the US' way.
  • Lebanon: Barely functional clusterfuck that the US would like to keep semi-functional but won't commit to fixing.
  • Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Qatar: The sane more reasonably Gulf Monarchies, Kuwait is actually kinda democratic. All US allies.
  • Bahrain, Saudi Arabia: US allies that are authoritarian dictatorships.
  • Yemen: Cluckerfuck involved in a civil war that has the Saudis involved, US drone playground.
  • Iran: US enemy alongside enemy of Israel and Saudi Arabia, bit less hate then there used to be though.
  • Jordan: The sane man of the Middle East. Reasonably monarchy that's generally chill with everyone, also the first ones to make peace with Israel, no oil.
  • Israel: US ally.
  • Egypt: US ally despite the military staging a coup after a revolution removed the former dictator. The US pays it a regular "don't start a war with Israel" bribe.
  • Libya: Semi functioning mess that's been repairing itself since the 2011 revolution had a civil war come after it between the guys who overthrew the dictator. The US and others are helping with the fixing a little as mediators.
  • Tunisia: Formed dictatorship turned democracy, the only place after 2011 where the Islamists were willing to give up power after first winning elections then loosing the later ones. Everybody likes Tunisia but it's not that significant strategically.
  • Algeria: Authoritarian kinda dictatorship/kinda just skeezy and authoritarian. US reasonably friendly I believe.
  • Morocco: Kinda a bit authoritarian monarchy, US ally, first country in the world to recognise the independent US after the American war of Independence.

Oh and there's also (depending on definition) Afghanistan which has been covered and Pakistan (basically a authoritarian semi-democracy with the military holding the real power and the US propping the military up so it doesn't loose a nuke or get overthrow by the Taliban).

That's just governments though, popular opinion will often vary a lot. The US isn't rather unpopular amongst the people of several countries due to it propping up dictatorships.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:15:11 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#115295: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:18:31 PM

[up]Algeria is friendly to the US mostly because of France though, since the rich friend of my friend is also my friend.

Inter arma enim silent leges
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#115296: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:20:37 PM

Pakistan: Nuclear Yugoslavia, just replace communism with political Islam.

EDIT-

[up]Algeria will be fairly interesting to watch for the next few months and years. It's leader is ailing and no one knows who will replace him from among the junta.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:21:25 PM by FFShinra

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#115298: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:39:22 PM

I thought Egypt was the first to make peace with Israel? I mean, Carter managed to make them negotiate a treaty that resulted in Sadat getting assassinated for going through with it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#115299: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:46:03 PM

On the State House floor, Representative David R. Lewis, a Republican and a chairman of the redistricting committee, said the maps complied with the judges’ ruling. And he was open about their partisan nature — much the way Democrats had been when they redrew districts in 2001. “I think electing Republicans is better than electing Democrats,” he said. “So I drew this map in a way to help foster what I think is better for the country.”

From the previously linked NY Times article - and holy god damn that's blatant.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:46:51 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#115300: Mar 10th 2016 at 4:48:02 PM

[up][up][up] Well that's a straight up heel turn.

And yeah, realpolitik is a big part of our philosophy there. If it weren't for the fact that they have oil we would most likely sit there and let the place burn except for Israel.

edited 10th Mar '16 4:53:04 PM by theLibrarian


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