Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The Koch bros are refusing to bankroll any attempt to stop Trump, even though they don't like him.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.And in 2000 at the wise and all knowing age of 20, I thought I knew for sure that part of NYC wouldn't have been blown up by a few terrorists armed with boxcutters, that common sense would keep the country from going to war with a country that didn't attack it, didn't have weapons of mass destruction, and numerous reports proved had nothing to do with the people who did attack it, that doing so would undoubtedly lead to the people who proposed such a thing swiftly being voted out of power or impeached, or at the very least brought up on charges, that people would have enough common sense to see how a blind reaction against fellow American Muslims would be stupid and pointless, that approving laws that monitored what books they checked out of the library, who they emailed with, and what websites they browsed would set off the hackles of everyone. I would have thought our traditions of free press and speech would mean that the press being stonewalled with claims of executive privilege would be seen as a flimsy excuse, that protestors wouldn't be lawyered out of being able to protest at all, etc.
Always keep in mind that the world is much stranger and has way more twists and turns than you'd expect, that you personally can't foresee the future regardless of how bright you are, and to never, ever, underestimate how much bullshit the average person will accept or put in place if they think it'll be their personal security blanket.
edited 7th Mar '16 9:11:37 AM by TheWanderer
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |@Rational: Too many Supreme Court justices are getting too old for what to be true? The Senate isn't going to allow a President Cruz or President Trump to appoint a radical, not to mention that it's always a risk when choosing a Justice that they can end up actually being on the other 'side' of the bench after they get their lifetime appointment.
As for mid-term turnout, two years of having a President Democrats immensely dislike would change that, even if he didn't accomplish anything, not to mention the loss of the Presidency in this hypothetical would force the DNC to clean house and get their asses in gear.
I've got to run, so I don't have time at the moment to write out a proportionate response to you, Jovian. Sorry. Suffice to say, I disagree.
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.I think they're reading too much into it. It's not that they're bigots, it's that they're disconnected from reality, which is colloquially considered to be "insanity". But what is the psychiatric opinion on this sort of mental state when it's brought about by "sincerely-held" political, religious, or tribal beliefs, as opposed to, say, paranoia/psychosis/schyzophrenia? Also, can it not be said that the Rep candidates have actual genuine Personality Disorders?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.So far everything you've said is based off your assumption that things go how you see them going. Things never go as planned, so we need to make sure they go in our favor.
I'd much rather take Hillary, as terrible as she is at appealing to young people, over Trump or Cruz. She'd put in better justices, she'd pull us closer to the left (or at least stop ICE agents from throwing my neighbors in a van), and wouldn't likely send us to war with the rest of the world like Trump would.
Supreme Court says "lol, no" to Alabama's attempt to deny parental rights to gay people
The justices in an unanimous opinion rebuked the Alabama Supreme Court for refusing to honor a lesbian's adoption of three children in Georgia once her partner moved with them to Alabama.
Citing the Constitution's Full Faith and Credit clause, the high court said states have a duty to honor legal agreements made in other states, and there is no exception for gay adoptions.
As the court noted, two women denoted only as V.L. and E.L. were in a committed relationship from 1995 until 2011. With the help of "assisted reproductive technology," E.L. gave birth to a child in 2002 and to twins in 2004. V.L. formally adopted the children, and the two women raised them as parents.
But in 2011, the two women ended their relationship, and E.L., who moved to Alabama, denied the other woman's right to visit the children.
When their dispute moved into court, the Alabama Supreme Court ruled the original adoption in Georgia was invalid and need not be honored.
Lawyers for V.L. appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing state judges should not be allowed to ignore legal adoptions from other states.
Without bothering to hear arguments, the Supreme Court reversed the judgment of the Alabama high court.
“I am overjoyed that the U.S. Supreme Court reversed the Alabama court decision,” said the adoptive mother, V.L. “I have been my children’s mother in every way for their whole lives. I thought that adopting them meant that we would be able to be together always. When the Alabama court said my adoption was invalid and I wasn’t their mother, I didn’t think I could go on. The Supreme Court has done what’s right for my family.”
Public acceptance of homosexuality is going up, not down, and the religious arm of the Republican party lacks the kind of established stranglehold on power necessary to dictate something as drastic as death penalties for perceived 'sins' arbitrarily from the top down. Anything that comes even remotely close to that will provoke such a backlash from the public that it will most likely completely destroy the careers of any politicians involved.
If we're going to worry about the symptoms of theoretical Republican dystopias, it's more realistic to worry about immigration issues, since 'illegals' can be safely othered due to language/culture barriers and inherently lacking the protections of citizenship. If death camp-esque fascist nonsense is going to happen at all, it's going to happen to people that the average American can safely think of as 'not American.'
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.![]()
It's nice to know that SCOTUS can act unanimously when it's such a hilariously absurd violation of the Constitution. Could it end up being that Scalia was the glue holding the reactionary wing of the Court together and that, without him, it'll return to a more neutral path?
Which is how fascism takes root, if you recall. Hitler and Mussolini didn't launch wars of conquest in the first hundred days of their administrations; they started by rallying public resentment against those "others" and leading their nations down the slippery slope from there.
edited 7th Mar '16 9:25:21 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I think political candidates ought to undergo independent psychological testing and IQ tests, and the results should be viewable by the public. It's already a common thing for job applicants, and I think politics is probably a pretty important job.
@ Area 51: What you'll find out a Groom Lake are...a lot of Defence Contractors with new prototypes and old, highly-classified prototypes and technology demonstrators buried out in the desert.
Keep Rolling OnNah, I think the issue in this case is that the violation of the Full Faith and Credit clause was blatantly obvious as such. Kind of like murdering someone in front of the jury and full national TV. I am not sure that even Scalia would have dissented here.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanComparing him [Trump] to Mussolini might be fair. Trump seems to be coming into power in a manner similar to nearly all Fascist leaders. They declare the "typical" political system to be broken, and that an entity outside of "regular politics" needs to step in and assume authority. This describes Trump pretty well. I'd also argue that he wants to channel xenophobia to "unite the nation", though I'm not sure if this is to the extent required to be considered truly fascist (I mean, he's hecka-racist, but Fascists tend to be even worse). Regardless, his ideology definitely takes the shape of fascism.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
![]()
Which makes it all the more hilarious that Clinton has promised to unveil the "truth" about Area 51. I mean, really, who is she kidding? Either she's playing to some crazy people or she actually thinks that the government is hiding alien spaceships in the desert, and if the latter, I'd be more worried than about Benghazi or secret emails or paid speeches.
Edit: Let me be clear — I do not necessarily believe that Trump is a fascist, full stop. I believe that he is borrowing, consciously or not, from fascist rhetoric to rally his supporters, and that he has the support of many folks who are, unquestionably, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, fascists, or all of the above. I feel that he is building a cult of personality centered on himself that will sweep him away down an inevitable path to a fascist state if not checked, and his ego won't let him check it.
edited 7th Mar '16 9:31:23 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Doubtful. The issue in this case seems to be that the Alabama law was extremely broad, saying that any deal or arrangement made outside Alabama that didn't agree with Alabama law was null and void once you crossed into Alabama.
So if I sold you an old car for $1,000 in Pennsylvania and something about the deal violated Alabama law, once you drove that car into Alabama you no longer owned it, for example.
That's a huge can of worms to open up, and unless the Court gets replaced with 9 hardcore libertarians, that sort of shit is never going to fly.
edited 7th Mar '16 9:31:30 AM by TheWanderer
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |![]()
![]()
In my personal, admittedly anecdotal experience, it's not young people who are convinced that the government is hiding evidence of UFO landings.
![]()
Sanders could make a good VP, but I wonder if he would be willing to accept the position. He's almost certainly too old to make another run for President, be it in 2020 or 2024. I can't see what other Cabinet position he'd accept.
edited 7th Mar '16 9:38:29 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Well he's definitely not close to voting age being only 8, but my little brother loves the show Ancient Aliens. My parents (esp. my dad) used to be convinced before I argued them out of it (along with psychic phenomena), and I still feel kind of guilty about that for some reason.
Unfortunately, Conspiracy Theorists always have another conspiracy theory behind their first one. Any evidence you bring onto the table was fabricated as part of the grand conspiracy.
@Fighteer: I've definitely seen people call him fascist full-stop. I would say that, even in a best case scenario, many of his voters are racist (which is emphatically not the same thing as being racist) and he's stirring these people up. He doesn't seem to be too bothered by either of these. Having said that, I think Trump's legitimately discriminatory. Some conservatives fall victim of Political Correctness Gone Mad, but Trump isn't one of them.
Leviticus 19:34One thing I feel should be mentioned about Trump supporters: despite how many shows joke about all of them being members of the KKK or being violent racists in other ways, thats just the most noticeable chunk of his followers. My dad supports him (despite my best efforts to pull him away), as do many others, because he's able to get people to think "the media" is trying to "shut him up".
A lot of his supporters couldn't care less about his policies, and are just there because they think he's the only one who will shake up the government enough and change everything on a large scale.
Basically the anti Bernie Sanders.

edited 7th Mar '16 9:00:42 AM by DrDougsh