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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It may be wishful thinking, but I would like to think that one of the differences between the left and right voting bases is that the left is actually willing to accept a compromise candidate if they can't get their ideal one. And to me, the important thing about Sanders has always been taking control of the political narrative back from the Republicans, rather than what he might or might not be able to do once he gets into office while being hobbled by Republican obstructionism. It's not about passing specific policies, it's about getting people to stop treating 'government' and 'socialism' and 'financial regulation' like dirty words, and getting them to pressure true moderate politicians to stick to their principles and not indulge in poisonous deals. And that's something that will persist even if we get a President Clinton, or, for that matter, a President Trump.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.If I do end up deciding not to vote for either candidate, it will be because I find that neither candidate reflects my values and not out of spite, thank you very much. If Clinton's unable to summon the enthusiasm among Dems and Inds that she needs to win, that's entirely on her weaknesses as a candidate and her inability to persuade myself or other voters. I will, of course, go to the polls to vote for every other race except the Presidency if that happens.
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Unfortunately, that kind of thinking will give us a President Cruz or a President Trump, either of which would be vastly worse than a President Clinton or President Sanders in almost every possible way. Such is the nature of our democracy. We may not like it, but we have to live in it, and that means holding our nose and voting for the least noxious candidate.
Will you blame the Democratic leadership or yourself when Trump's Gestapo rounds up your Hispanic neighbors for the deportation camps? Because he has literally said he would do that. Or when Cruz helps his buddies in the evangelical community enact the death penalty for homosexuality? Because he received the acclaim of a man who said he would do that.
edited 7th Mar '16 8:15:55 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
True, but isn't the reality of First Past The Post voting that one won't get to vote for a candidate they like, but against the candidate they really don't like?
If we can't convince you to vote for Hilary, can we convince you to at least vote against Trump/Cruz?
EDIT:
'd by basically the same argument.
edited 7th Mar '16 8:14:13 AM by Kayeka
Probably the exact same thing that happened in 2008 when a bunch of Clinton supporters calling themselves PUMAs, (standing for Party Unity My Ass!) vowed that they would never vote for Obama after he beat Clinton: they'll do some grumbling and venting, then relax over the course of a couple of months, and go out and almost certainly vote Democrat.
It's slightly less likely now than in '08, since Obama was massively likable and charismatic and Clinton is less so, (and has had people throwing around mostly bullshit scandals about her for 24 years to feed into general anti-Clinton feelings) and in '08 Bush was massively unpopular and the economy was imploding, which added more fuel for Democrats, but most of these people who claim they'll vote Trump before they vote Clinton will get the fuck over it after months of Republican horribleness.
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |I've mentioned before that we have a Syrian family living across the street from us. They've lived here for a while; they aren't relocated refugees, but they have family in Syria and know about the violence there first-hand. (They've shown me pictures and videos of people starving to death in the streets of Syria's cities.)
They are the nicest people I could hope to meet, cultural differences notwithstanding, and I think it's great that we have that kind of diversity in our community for my son to learn from.
If Trump wins, I would be very worried for them.
edited 7th Mar '16 8:25:56 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Hillary Clinton plans to get to the bottom of Area 51.
Somehow I doubt this will become a campaign issue.
So, with Bernie's jap at the GOP over mental health funding? Apparently a number of people considered that
an Insult to Rocks.
I'm reasonably sure that we won't get as far as gestapo or the death penalty for gays without a resistance utterly dedicated to stonewalling and serious suggestions of impeachment, so naturally I will rightly blame the Party leadership for fielding a candidate who's unable to persuade enough voters to win. Note that I am not saying I will not vote for Clinton under any circumstances, only that I will not vote for either candidate if she is unable to persuade. The Senate is more likely than not to flip to the Dems this cycle, so I don't particularly fear a Trump or Cruz presidency getting anything radical in terms of legislation or SCOTUS nominees through Congress, either.
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.You may expect the Senate to flip, but what if it doesn't? If we can't elect Clinton as President, why would you imagine there'd be enough downticket votes to push Republicans out? As much as I might look forward to passing the popcorn as Trump presides over the disintegration of our country, I live here too.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
And if the Senate flips back in 2018? Are you willing to risk Trump or Cruz having significant input on foreign policy? Supreme Court appointments (Ginsberg and a few others might not be here in 4 years time)? The budget? Healthcare?
While the Democratic nominee might not be ideal, I think you can trust them not to set American back by 40 years (which will take way longer than 4-8 years to undo). Not voting against the GOP is essentially the same as voting for them.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.The country won't be disintegrating regardless of who's elected; our democratic traditions and the vehement dislike of Cruz and Trump by a majority of Senators from either party are too strong for that. Why would I expect there to be enough downticket votes to push the Repubs out of the Senate? You know it's normal for a great many people, especially Inds or genuinely moderate partisans to vote one way on the Presidency and another on his or her congressional races, right? It happens all the more so when people think the candidate they're voting for in the President slot will bring radical change, as the instinct of said voters is often to moderate their Presidential choice by voting for the other party in Congress.
The Senate won't flip back in 2018 in this scenario, by the way. Party of the incumbent President always loses out in mid-terms, and no reason to expect that to change given how widely disliked Trump and Cruz are. And no, not voting against the GOP is not, numerically, the same as voting for them.
edited 7th Mar '16 8:51:53 AM by darksidevoid
GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.Fascists without the fashion sense...or even the eloquence.
Too many Supreme Court justices are getting too old for that to be true. If Trump or Cruz get to appoint even 2 or 3 judges (especially if they are replacing liberals), millions of people are going to suffer. Life just won't go on for anyone who is already pretty marginalized.
EDIT: But the DNC is typically dreadful at getting decent turnout for midterms.
edited 7th Mar '16 8:51:59 AM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.Supposedly, Hitler was not that Eloquent.
As for Trump, while I do have evidence that he very likely has a pseudo-fascist agenda, I don't think this particular action qualifies as more evidence. I find it hilariously childish more than anything. "Everyone, pinky swear to vote for me!"
Leviticus 19:34re: Area 51 — it's been pretty much public knowledge for a while now that it was used to test new aircraft designs (particularly the U-2 spy plane) during the Cold War. There's your "mysterious lights in the sky" right there. They actually declassified documents to that effect a while ago.
re: not voting — a vote for a candidate does not mean you love everything about them forever. It means they're the person you'd like to see in office. The only reason you should not vote is if you honestly don't care which of the candidates wins. If it's all the same to you whether Hillary or Trump (for example) end up in the Oval Office, then sure, don't bother to vote. (Of course, there are a lot more than just the presidential race being voted on during that election, so unless you're ambivalent about all of them, then you should still participate in the election, even if you don't vote in certain races, or vote for a write-in protest candidate.) But if you have literally any preference at all, then you should still vote, even if it's only for the one you dislike less. If someone offered you a choice between being punched in the gut or shot in the face, would you tell them "I don't like either of those, so I refuse to pick one" and run the risk that they'll end up choosing the worse choice? Because that's basically what you're doing if you have a preference but decide not to vote anyway.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.I think comparisons to Hitler are unfair. He's closer to Mussolini in demeanor in some ways though. I've also heard people calling him the American Mahmoud Ahmadinejad; using rhetoric and fear of the designated foe to whip up support while (probably) being corrupt as all hell.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

That was funny, but question: if Bernie loses, what will everyone do?