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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#114576: Mar 5th 2016 at 1:46:52 PM

Which is funny/creepy because Cruz may actually be even worse than Trump.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#114577: Mar 5th 2016 at 1:51:21 PM

Yep. And The Daily Show had so much fun with that fact.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#114578: Mar 5th 2016 at 2:03:02 PM

I'd take Trump over Cruz, though I'd rather floss with barbed wire than see either of those two having access to a nuclear arsenal.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#114580: Mar 5th 2016 at 2:55:44 PM

Apparently, the guy who made those anti-Obama movies is making one for Hillary, to be released in July. What does this mean for her chances?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#114581: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:02:07 PM

Out of curiosity...the term fascist is getting applied to Trump a lot, and to his supporters for that matter, both in this thread and elsewhere. Now, that's a term that is frequently misused, and which I try not to throw around myself, even for people I hate. I never called Romney a fascist. I never called Bush a fascist. Much as I loathe him, I'd never call Rubio a fascist (Cruz, maybe). But when it comes to Trump...I think it's a fair descriptor.

It's not just the retweeting Mussolini (and looking suspiciously like him). It's not even just the racism, though that's a major part of it. It's the entire political platform. Nativism, protectionist ideas, constant reactionary talk about returning to a better period in the past, the embrace of Neo-Confederate and Neo-Nazi groups and rhetoric, this is all starting to look more and more like an Americanized Mussolini (I won't use a Hitler comparison. Yet at least). Every time I hear him, or for that matter, some of his supporters talk, I can't help but think that these are the kind of people who would have supported Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, and their ilk in the twenties, thirties, and forties. That they're the kind of people who'd have backed Pinochet and Videla (who I have no problem calling fascist) in the seventies and eighties.

In any case, I was wondering, do other people in the thread think that it is a genuinely fair to apply the term fascist to Trump? Because I'm starting to think it actually is, and that's rather frightening.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#114582: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:21:44 PM

Wow. Bernie Sanders economic plan. Setting aside the issue of the extremely steep progressive tax and his plan for the job market, the extremely comprehensive single-payer health care seems to be the central part right? And the total price tag for his plans is 18 trillion dollars?

From the looks of it, even left-leaning economists are skeptical his plan is financially sound, let alone politically feasible.

While I understand Bernie's concerns, there's probably better things to put 18 trillion dollars in over the period of presidency, and which might be more likely ways to get votes. Like, instead of a massive overhaul in health care etc., why not put that money into education and scientific research? More likely to have long-term benefits, and should also increase public health quite a bit.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114583: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:25:07 PM

'$18 trillion' was an exaggerated number used early in the election season last year. Kinda behind on the discussion.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#114584: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:27:22 PM

Ah. Not surprising. Relying on top Google results for political news doesn't give accurate information.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#114585: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:27:38 PM

It's nigh impossible that the court will vote in favor of Texas. At worst they'll tie, which is still a win for Texas because the 5th circuit ruled in favor, but as a tie it doesn't become precedent, meaning that the lawsuit against the Louisiana one could come to the supreme court.

Frankly i think Kennedy will be convinced to side with the liberals in a moderate way because to vote otherwise would invite chaos, since all of the clinic-targeting laws look very similar in that regard.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#114586: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:28:34 PM

@Ambar: Yes.

And I highly suggest reading It Cant Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis (available for free on Project Gutenberg) from 1935. Not only is it disturbingly prophetic of what would happen over the next decade, but that some key characteristics of Lewis' concept of American Fascism are even remotely applicable today is something I find quite concerning.

There are plenty of key differences, of course. One, as we mentioned, is sophistication (because it is the antithesis of the enemy). Where Buzz Windrip says:

I know the Press only too well. Almost all editors hide away in spider-dens, men without thought of Family or Public Interest or the humble delights of jaunts out-of-doors, plotting how they can put over their lies, and advance their own positions and fill their greedy pocketbooks...
Trump says:
I hate the press!

edited 5th Mar '16 3:40:25 PM by Eschaton

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#114587: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:35:20 PM

I'm reminded of the movie Judgment at Nuremburg and the speech by Ernst Janning at the tribunal. Just replace a few key words...

There was a fever over the land. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. Above all, there was fear. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves. Only when you understand that - can you understand what [Trump] meant to us. Because he said to us: 'Lift your heads! Be proud to be [American]! There are devils among us. Communists, Liberals, [Muslims], [Mexicans]! Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed.' It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb. What about those of us who knew better? We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part? Because we loved our country! What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights? What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights? It is only a passing phase. It is only a stage we are going through. It will be discarded sooner or later. [Trump] himself will be discarded... sooner or later. The country is in danger. We will march out of the shadows. We will go forward. Forward is the great password. And history tells how well we succeeded, your honor. We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. The very elements of hate and power about [Trump] that mesmerized [America], mesmerized the world!

edited 5th Mar '16 3:54:41 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#114588: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:46:50 PM

[up][up]I've read it actually.

I'd also like to note that Trump being supported by the American Freedom Party is hilarious to me for a couple of reasons. One, because they're white supremacist bastards who make it even harder for him to pretend and otherwise, and two because in Timeline-191 the Freedom Party is the name of the Nazi analogue that takes over the CSA.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#114589: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:15:06 PM

In any case, I was wondering, do other people in the thread think that it is a genuinely fair to apply the term fascist to Trump? Because I'm starting to think it actually is, and that's rather frightening.
What he's doing looks pretty similar to fascism and other Authoritarian politics. If Fascism if too much, Authoritarianism seems on the ball.

But yes, Trump seems the closest so far that America has gotten to flat out Fascism in recent years.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#114590: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:39:32 PM

Speaking of The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, they noted just how far to the Left that Bernie has pulled Hillary since the start of the race, even referring to him as her Magical Negro that teaches her An Aesop.

edited 5th Mar '16 4:40:32 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#114591: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:51:29 PM

@Trump being a Fascist: I found online a criteria of fascism, and from what I can tell Trump's ideology seem legitimately fascist, and on its 6 criteria Trump either scored a flat out yes, "too early to tell" or "Kind of, but maybe not to the extent required".

So, what I'd argue on one hand, the only difference between his ideology and fascism is degree. On the other hand, if he is a fascist, he probably isn't exactly Mussolini, either.

Leviticus 19:34
daird Since: Jul, 2014
#114592: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:00:44 PM

Well, for those wanting a contested convention in the GOP, whether to see a party tear itself to shreds in anarchy or just for a return to the 1860s style of politics, today's your lucky day! Cruz absolutely NUKED the Donald in Kansas, and it looks like he'll grab Maine, too!

Forward, boys! For God's sake, forward!
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#114593: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:30:37 PM

Cruz just nuked Trump? Oh good. I really don't want to see Trump get that nomination.

And Hillary's doing well, too, I suspect? If so then, hooray for the establishment!!

Leviticus 19:34
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#114594: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:40:52 PM

Yeah, Sanders apparently also took Colorado today or yesterday.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#114595: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:42:03 PM

[up][up]Not so fast. Sanders won Kansas.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#114596: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:46:56 PM

I'd much rather have Trump than Cruz, and this vote would sooner go to the shredder than to Trump. Cruz's ego easily matches Trump's, but he cultivates all the restraint and reasonable doubt you'd expect of a cult leader.

[down]Der Fuhrer und ein Hochmeister, mit ze Middle East beink ze Lithuania und ze Poland?

edited 5th Mar '16 5:56:44 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#114597: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:47:15 PM

... so is it unfair to call the Trump v Cruz primary a choice between Der Fuhrer and the Ayatollah?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#114598: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:57:41 PM

Actually, upon further examination, Cruz really does sound like a stereotypical preacher.

Still, I agree with him on a lot more than I do with Trump.

Leviticus 19:34
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#114599: Mar 5th 2016 at 5:59:34 PM

Yeah, Sanders apparently also took Colorado today or yesterday.

Colorado part of Super Tuesday. Kansas has been called for Bernie, and Nebraska might go for him as well. Louisiana will be almost certain go to Clinton, and Maine will be decided tomorrow, though my unstudied and unscientific expectation is that it'll go for Sanders.

These are small fish though. The 15th is the next big day worth keeping an eye on.

edited 5th Mar '16 6:05:23 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#114600: Mar 5th 2016 at 6:02:58 PM

[up][up]He understands only enough of the Muzzies to know that they'll be swiftly brought to heel if only we make more bombs with which to "carpet bomb" them, which is to say that he knows nothing at all. He's a walking war crime waiting to happen, a man who probably could not admit any of his policies to be much less than the divine will. He's the most dreadful of things: a Protestant crusader.

edited 5th Mar '16 6:04:37 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."

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