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TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#114201: Mar 2nd 2016 at 5:08:52 PM

@Bat178: You should probably take that kind of question to the U.S. cultures thread, so we can tear it apart there. tongue

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#114202: Mar 2nd 2016 at 5:13:22 PM

[up] Didn't even realize we had a thread for that.

edited 2nd Mar '16 5:14:09 PM by Bat178

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#114203: Mar 2nd 2016 at 5:23:57 PM

Mitt Romney will give a speech on Thursday addressing his party's presidential race.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#114204: Mar 2nd 2016 at 5:56:36 PM

At least one person is looking at the power of the non-endorsements, such as Senator Ben Sasse and Ben Stein pledging to vote for Hillary before they'd vote for Trump. Emphasis mine.

It may have been the most important non-endorsement of 2016.

Nebraska freshman Sen. Ben Sasse put into words on Facebook and Twitter what other Republican officeholders are muttering over late-night drinks — that he could not vote for Donald Trump in November, even if he were opposed by Hillary Clinton.

Sasse’s gutsy move may help inspire other mainstream Republicans in Congress to draw their own moral lines in the sand. Mitt Romney has joined the Dump the Trump caucus with a tweet describing the bilious billionaire’s non-answer on the KKK as the “coddling of repugnant bigotry.”

With Trump poised to sweep most — if not all — the Super Tuesday states, the level of depression in the rational wing of the Republican Party is becoming akin to the mood among stockbrokers in late 1929.

But if more Republicans speak out about bolting the party if Trump heads the ticket, the entire calculus of the nomination fight changes.

No longer would the question be: Can Marco Rubio come from behind to defeat Trump? Instead, the arithmetic would become: Can the party regulars stop Trump from winning the 1,237 delegates he needs in Cleveland?

Under this scenario, there would be no more talk of winnowing the field so that Rubio can take on Trump one-to-one. Instead, the goal would be to keep as many delegates as possible out of Trump’s short fingers. In the near term, it would be why John Kasich should be encouraged — rather than scorned — for making a stand in winner-take-all Ohio on March 15.

And if Kasich and Rubio in Florida fail to thump Trump on the 15th, then there would be a strong argument for a late entry by a prominent Republican to run in the June primaries. This would not necessarily be a route to the nomination, but instead part of a crusade to save the Republican Party from a moral rout.

Maybe Romney or Paul Ryan could enter the California primary (filing deadline: March 26) or take on the sputtering carcass of Chris Christie’s deflated ego in New Jersey (filing deadline: April 4).note 

We have gotten out of the habit of thinking of a nomination fight as a battle to the convention floor. The last time that candidates refused to fold a losing hand was in San Francisco in 1984 where Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson opposed de facto nominee Walter Mondale to the bitter end. In sharp contrast, Hillary Clinton was only 104 delegates behind Barack Obama when she bowed out after the June primaries in 2008.

The 1980 Democratic convention in New York (pitting incumbent President Jimmy Carter against the-dream-shall-never-die candidacy of Ted Kennedy) may provide the most relevant model for anti-Trump Republicans.

Like the Republicans today, Democratic delegates in New York were bound to their candidate for the first ballot. But badly trailing in the delegates, even as Carter’s approval rate hit 21 percent in the Gallup Poll, the Kennedy backers came up with a last-ditch strategy.

Their clever idea was to free the delegates to vote their conscience instead of being robots forced to obey the results of the primaries or caucuses that selected them. Overturning the Robot Rule would have been possible, in theory, because conventions as a body have the power to change the rules — and delegates are always free agents on procedural votes.

The gambit didn’t work for Kennedy because nostalgia for Camelot was not strong enough a motivation to prompt many delegates to rebel against an incumbent president.

But the stakes in Cleveland in July would be infinitely greater — with the threat of the first takeover of a modern political party by an authoritarian who traffics in racism and exudes contempt for the First Amendment. Under these circumstances, there would be nothing anti-democratic about GOP leaders using every mechanism in their power to stop Trump. Gaming the rules, after all, is what Ronald Reagan tried against Jerry Ford in 1976.

It is worth remembering that — even with a delegate lead or a majority — Trump would face built-in disadvantages in Cleveland. Paul Ryan would be the convention chair and other GOP insiders would probably control relevant committees like convention rules and party platform. In some states, Trump does not get to pick his delegates slates, but instead is saddled with party stalwarts of dubious loyalty.

The political press corps is wedded to the doctrine of Premature Certainty — and tomorrow night many TV pundits will probably predict that the GOP race is all but over. But such glib forecasts ignore how many hurdles — thank God — still stand between Trump and triumph.

The recent attacks on Trump by Rubio combined with the incendiary comments on the Klan may gradually bring down his poll numbers as Republicans realize the real-world consequences of a protest vote. Losing winner-take-all states such as Florida and Ohio may also dent Trump’s aura of inevitability.

There is also the question of whether Trump can finally figure out a way to go too far even by the forgive-all standards of his voters. Having embraced Vladimir Putin and Chinese tactics in Tiananmen Square, maybe Trump will take the next step and express his admiration, while campaigning in Florida, for the tough-guy record of Fidel Castro.

Sasse and Romney represent a wing of the Republican Party that will not surrender its traditions and its honor without a fight to the convention floor — and beyond. Viewed in those terms, the Super Tuesday primaries represent the end of the beginning rather than the beginning of the end.

edited 2nd Mar '16 6:01:11 PM by BlueNinja0

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#114205: Mar 2nd 2016 at 6:04:37 PM

Seeing as most of the Democratic voters down South are black, I doubt this was much of an issue, and might have been a point of favor for him. No he lost because Hillary had a good ground game and Bill was seen as the "first Black President" until Obama came along. I never understood why that was. Near as I can tell it was relating the Clinton scandals to the alleged plots to bring powerful black men down.
Bill was extremely comfortable playing Golf with African Americans. He was very comfortable hiring and promoting them. He governed Arkansas as a governor who was seen as fair to both Black and White voters. And again, African American voters saw a pretty decent whirlwind of prosperity (at least seemingly) be reaped under his presidency.

Basically he's seen as a President who actively (and not reluctantly) helped people in the Black community improve their lives.

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#114206: Mar 2nd 2016 at 6:31:22 PM

Well, seems Der Trumpenfuhrer carried the day. Cruz got some surprise hits in, but thankfully he is left behind substantially.

I have to wonder what insane positions Trump will take with his recent triumph in mind. I mean, he has to one up Cruz's idea of a gang of jackbooted thugs rooting out immigrants...that's just how this insane show works...

All at once I am terrified and held in awe.

These are some interesting days.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#114207: Mar 2nd 2016 at 6:46:44 PM

Well, he came up with a plan for health care reform. I don't know what it's dealing with, though.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#114208: Mar 2nd 2016 at 6:55:39 PM

[up]He says he has a plan, but he won't go into specifics about it. Smells like BS to me.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#114209: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:09:06 PM

These aren't specific enough?

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#114210: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:21:38 PM

The Chinese mock Trump, they fear Hillary. Apparently the Chinese neitzins believe Trump can be tamed like GWB was. Also the CCP despises Hillary for creating the pivot to Asia strategy, and for actually having the balls to call them out on their appalling human rights record. And regional leaders have experience with, and trust, her.

And I suppose it says something about my naivte that I think a politician being comfortable playing golf with black people and actually talking to them was considered to be unusually progressive in the 80's, and perhaps today.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#114211: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:22:30 PM

[up][up]All right, I withdraw my previous statement. But since I can't stomach listening to the orangutan, I'll have take your word for it.

edited 2nd Mar '16 7:23:41 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#114212: Mar 2nd 2016 at 8:12:55 PM

From what I've heard, Trumps's "plan" is a pretty standard GOP return to the pre-Obamacare status quo. So pre-existing conditions become a thing again, (screw those 60 million or so Americans who currently have any condition ranging from tonsilitis to degenerative back conditions if they have to change healthcare providers) the mandate dies, (despite Trump has recently been pro-mandate, but Donald Trump changing his positions to polar opposites of what he recently said happens so frequently no one bothers to even talk about it) etc.

It's also full of the usual Republican wish list to gut Medicaid and Medicare, to "allow" the sale of insurance across state lines, (translation: just like credit cards companies, every insurance company will set itself up in whatever state allows it to screw over its customers the most with the least regulation and oversight, and then go from there) and it will be more expensive for poor people, of course. Because fuck em.

Vox also has an article up about it, where you are in no danger of seeing the Orange Abomination's face.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114213: Mar 2nd 2016 at 8:57:52 PM

A mid-level technician does not plead the Fifth or gain immunity from the DOJ unless there is a legitimate investigation going on with specific targets.

Bryan Pagliano, Hillary Clinton worker, cooperating with FBI in email scandal

The Justice Department has granted immunity to a former State Department staffer, who worked on Hillary Clinton’s private email server, as part of a criminal investigation into the possible mishandling of classified information, according to a senior law enforcement official.

The official said the FBI had secured the cooperation of Bryan Pagliano, who worked on Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign before setting up the server in her New York home in 2009.

As the FBI looks to wrap up its investigation in the coming months, agents are likely to want to interview Clinton and her senior aides about the decision to use a private server, how it was set up, and whether any of the participants knew they were sending classified information in emails, current and former officials said.

He also said the campaign is “pleased” that Pagliano, who invoked his Fifth Amendment rights before a congressional panel in September, is now cooperating with prosecutors. The campaign had encouraged Pagliano to testify before Congress.

As part of the inquiry, law enforcement officials will look at the potential damage had the classified information in the emails been exposed. The Clinton campaign has described the probe as a security review. But current and former officials in the FBI and at the Justice Department have said investigators are trying to determine whether a crime was committed.

edited 2nd Mar '16 9:14:14 PM by SolipsistOwl

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#114214: Mar 2nd 2016 at 9:13:44 PM

"Trying to determine whether a crime was committed" is what people have been doing to the Clintons for the last several decades, so I understand why others are skeptical.

And if this one actually manages to stick, I can't say I'm looking forward to this election season turning into even more of a quagmire than it already is.

edited 2nd Mar '16 9:14:49 PM by Eschaton

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114215: Mar 3rd 2016 at 12:39:49 AM

Get back to me when they've gone from "trying to determine" to "have determined".

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#114216: Mar 3rd 2016 at 1:24:50 AM

In 2008, Obama lost 21 states. HRC initially had a 3 to 1 super delegate advantage. It was June before she conceded.

[up]The sight of potential crimes that may have been committed fills you with determination.

edited 3rd Mar '16 1:27:25 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114217: Mar 3rd 2016 at 1:52:38 AM

Thing is based on 2008 Clinton is Obama and Sanders is Clinton, Obama always lead the regular delegate count (as Florida and Michigan didn't get their votes (well half of them) restored until May, Clinton now leads the regular delegate count.

Obama never had to climb up from behind, Clinton failed to in 2008. Sanders is now in the position Clinton was in but worse, instead of being behind 12 delegates after Super Tuesday (like Clinton was) he's behind 192.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#114218: Mar 3rd 2016 at 3:28:45 AM

A post from Reddit from a Real Life Black Person™ explaining why Sanders isn't clicking with black voters.

Slate on the 1994 Crime Bill

Why Clinton is connecting with black voters and Sanders isn't.

It's interesting, the pattern of the 2008 and 2016 primaries. The new reality is that you cannot win a Democratic primary in the USA without appealing to black America. That's probably good news in the long run.

@Chinese fearing Hillary

Not surprising, given the position of women in China. I'm going to enjoy the Islamists hyperventilating with rage if a woman becomes POTUS.

edited 3rd Mar '16 4:00:49 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#114219: Mar 3rd 2016 at 4:19:19 AM

Of what I'm gathering is, basically as the Reddit poster pointed out, susciently:

The problem isn't Sanders per say, of what he's trying to fight for or offer.

The problem is he spent the 80s and 90s so laser focused on the economic bullshit caused by Reagan and Neo Liberalism and Wall Street that he dropped the ball with Race Relations.

i.e. Sanders' lacks sufficient street cred.

Also, the Mass Incarceration Bill, while damaging to African Americans, was also good for them because it gutted the living shit out of the gangs and drug dealers in their communities, allowing them to live without fear, even though many innocents and non violent offenders got caught up in it.

See. THAT'S what I've been trying to find out and not getting, what is Hillary's 'cred'.

There's also the point that Bill tried to reverse a lot of shit done under Reagan and Nixon, who were both "Fuck the Blacks" presidents (especially since the Civil Rights Movement, MLK and the Panthers were trying to use socialist values to strengthen the community when Red Scare was REALLY at its heights).

Dean 2004, Obama 2008, Sanders 2016 and white liberals

Basically the hardcore White Liberals keep chasing the vanity candidate (Dean, Obama, Sanders), but the White Liberals need to be able to secure the support of another major group in the party tent to get the candidate actually past the primary. Despite the fact this group can generate insane amounts of money and secure party apparatuses to get things moving.

edited 3rd Mar '16 4:35:38 AM by PotatoesRock

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#114220: Mar 3rd 2016 at 5:15:38 AM

IIRC, black median household wealth increased by something crazy like 25% under Clinton, double the rate at which white MHW did. The recession wiped out a lot of those gains, but they were real at the time.

edited 3rd Mar '16 5:17:07 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#114222: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:40:56 AM

This is just a comical thing I saw on twitter, but have some Children standing up against the Trump.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#114224: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:55:59 AM

[up]x3 It really scares me how many of those voters are voting for Trump because they want to see America fail even though they live here. The ones who proclaim they want to laugh at the "SJ Ws" when he gets into office.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#114225: Mar 3rd 2016 at 7:01:05 AM

[up]

Tip America so far right, that it will learn a very vivid lesson.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

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