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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114151: Mar 2nd 2016 at 12:59:11 PM

@Ironballs 16- Seems unlikely. I just googled it because I was wondering where that accusation was coming from and from the Boston Globe (which might have been the source posted previously?) it sounds like he greeted people but didn't actually say anything election related.

I mean obviously he's campaigning for Hillary, but there Ain't No Rule forbidding a former president from greeting people in a polling place.

edited 2nd Mar '16 12:59:40 PM by Hodor2

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114152: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:05:19 PM

[up]Actually, there is.

"ELECTION DAY LEGAL SUMMARY PUBLISHED BY: WILLIAM FRANCIS GALVIN SECRETARY OF THE COMMONWEALTH ELECTIONS DIVISION ONE ASHBURTION PLACE, ROOM 1705 BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS 02108 617-727-2828 or 1-800-462-8683 Activities in the Polling Location On Election Day, certain activities are prohibited within the polling location and within 150 feet of the polling place. General Law chapter 54, section 65 prohibits within 150 feet of a polling location, among other things, the posting, exhibition, circulation, or distribution of material—including pasters, stickers, posters, cards, handbills, placards, pictures or circulars—intended to influence the action of the voter. G. L. 54, § 65 (1998 ed.). Consistent with the activities restricted by statute, the implementing regulations prohibit the solicitation of votes for or against, or any other form of promotion or opposition of, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election.

950 C.M.R. § 53.03(18)(d); 950 C.M.R. § 54.04(22)(d). Accordingly, a person standing within 150 feet of a polling location, including observers in the polling location, may not: hold any campaign sign; hand any person literature intended to influence the voter’s action at the polls; wear any campaign buttons or identifying signage; solicit a person’s vote for or against a candidate or question on the ballot; or, distribute stickers. Circulators of nomination papers, initiative and referenda petitions are also restricted from soliciting signatures within 150 feet of a building entrance door to a polling place. G. L. c. 54, § 65 (1998 ed.).

http://www.medfordma.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ELECTIONSummary.pdf

Activities in the Polling Location

On Election Day, certain activities are prohibited within the polling location and within 150 feet of the polling place. General Law chapter 54, section 65 prohibits within 150 feet of a polling location, among other things, the posting, exhibition, circulation, or distribution of material—including pasters, stickers, posters, cards, handbills, placards, pictures or circulars—intended to influence the action of the voter. G. L. 54, § 65 (2002 ed.). Consistent with the activities restricted by statute, the implementing regulations prohibit the solicitation of votes for or against, or any other form of promotion or opposition of, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election. 950 C.M.R. § 54.04(22)(d). Accordingly, a person standing within 150 feet of a polling location, including observers in the polling location, may not: hold any campaign sign; hand any person literature intended to influence the voter’s action at the polls; wear any campaign buttons or identifying signage; solicit a person’s vote for or against a candidate or question on the ballot; or, distribute stickers. Circulators of nomination papers, initiative and referenda petitions are also restricted from soliciting signatures within 150 feet of a building entrance door to a polling place. G. L. c. 54, § 65 (2002 ed.). This is true even where the nomination papers, initiative petition or referendum have nothing to do with the current election.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:12:32 PM by SolipsistOwl

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114153: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:11:37 PM

I don't think (technically) he was soliciting votes though, nor was he distributing any materials. In effect, his presence would be promotion, but I'm not sure just being present is enough to violate the law.

Basically, it seems more than a bit shady (although Bill has always been big about shmoozing with people), but I don't see how it's illegal.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:15:53 PM by Hodor2

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#114154: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:13:26 PM

[up] If I'm reading the law right, as long as Bill didn't actually ask anyone to vote for or against anything, but just stood around outside the polling place saying hi to everyone, he's legally clear.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114155: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:13:30 PM

The Hillary campaign stickers, signs, and rally speech might have been soliciting her vote a little...

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114156: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:16:35 PM

Is there a legit site indicating that he was wearing or giving out those things?

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#114157: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:19:31 PM

I think the Daily Kos (which is about as liberal as Huff-Po, if not more-so) has an embedded video someone took where, allegedly, Sanders supporters were warned off of being too close while Bill Clinton, standing considerably closer to the polling place, was using a bullhorn to address the crowd.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114158: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:22:47 PM

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:24:39 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114159: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:23:15 PM

If he was wearing a sticker or button then he'll have been in violation, I know that in the UK at least the rules are very strict, we have to take our political affiliation stickers and such off if we want to enter the polling place, even if we're the person outside asking how folks voted and just want to go in to use the bathroom.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114160: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:23:59 PM

Is that video working for others? Getting an error message, although I've been having computer problems anyway, so curious...

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114162: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:29:03 PM

He clearly isn't within the "no campaigning" zone though, you don't get large crowds like that and people with signs (like the anti-Hillary "bankers for Hilary" one) in the no campaigning zone.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114163: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:29:17 PM

[up]The "no campaign" zone is within 150 feet. Clinton is within 50. And he later went inside the polling place.

This article has a photo showing Mayor Marty Walsh wearing a Hillary sticker while campaigning alongside Bill, so the mayor might have more explicitly and provably broken election rules.

Did Bill Clinton violate election rules by going into a polling location?

Massachusetts election rules forbid the solicitation of a vote for or against a candidate, party, or position within 150 feet of a polling place.

Alongside Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, Clinton greeted election workers and voters on Tuesday at the Holy Name Parish School, a polling location in West Roxbury. The former president chatted up voters, kissed an old lady on the head, posed for photos, and bought a cup of coffee, Mass Live reports.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:40:48 PM by SolipsistOwl

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114164: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:29:39 PM

Thanks.

I see, so it's too separate things. I hadn't seen that ans had only seen the discussion of his meeting and greeting inside of the polling place/controversy about that, which I still doubt would be illegal.

This (the video) is definitely way more questionable unless he was like 151 feet away from the polling place.

Edit- Is in front of a polling place in the video? The video seems to imply that he is, but describes the location as being Buttonwood Park (which according to Google is a zoo in New Bedford).

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:32:50 PM by Hodor2

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114165: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:34:01 PM

[up]Here's three images to give you an idea of the polling location:

[1]

[2]

[3]

That Time Al Gore Blocked Traffic to Win an Election; Or, Why Christie's Scandal Matters

Michael Whouley came up with a last-ditch scheme: Send Gore into areas of southern New Hampshire where there was a lot of Bradley support among upscale voters and commuters who worked across the border in Massachusetts. Many of them cast their ballots late in the day after driving home. Gore's motorcade — candidate, press, Secret Service, and police — could snarl traffic and keep some of the commuters from ever getting to their polling places or even trying to. We were perpared to try anything. But we didn't share the rationale with Gore; we just sent him on his way.

Soon Wholey heard from an irate vice president. He was causuing a massive traffic jam and it was time to call off this last-minute foray. Whouley was reluctant to tell him the truth, instead explaining that we had to fight for every last vote. But voters, Gore snapped, were having trouble getting to the polls. Whouley cleared his throat: "But sir, they're mostly Bradley voters." He didn't need to say anything more. Gore got the point and continued on, although there wasn't enough time to go on to the last stop Whouley had planned. The traffic was just impossible.

Michael Whouley now works as an adviser to... Bill Clinton.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:46:48 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114166: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:37:39 PM

Well then it's a good thing Bill Clinton isn't running for office.

As for the 150 yards rule, what qualifies as a polling place? is it measured from the building or from the polling booths?

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:38:32 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#114167: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:41:41 PM

I have a hard time feeling an outrageous need to indulge in gratuitous amounts of justice giving because Bill Clinton was close to a polling center and/or because Hillary did some work from home. I've seen less desperate attempts to hold on to something from men clinging to splintery barrels in the middle of a maelstrom about to swallow them into the briny dephts.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#114169: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:44:13 PM

[up][up]

I'd imagine it would be from the building itself - way too much ambiguity if it's done from the booths.

Also, I'm pretty disappointed to find out that Gore did something like that - and while it's not illegal, it sure as hell isn't on the up-and-up. And the issue is that Clinton may have done something blatantly illegal by violating that law - if you can't hold him accountable for knowingly violating it, why should anyone else be? But more importantly is the simple question of why any other candidate's spouse, or high-profile supporter, should feel threatened if the State doesn't enforce it on them?

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:50:02 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#114170: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:45:32 PM

Yes, it's a polling location.

[up]x5 The building, most likely, but also likely that the letter of the law doesn't specify.

[up]x3 I'm not particularly sure what you're waxing poetic about, but maintaining ethical behavior in elections is a big deal, at least to me.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:46:47 PM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#114171: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:48:15 PM

Campaigning near a polling station is a serious violating, those rules are there to prevent voter intimidation and protect the sanctity of the ballot, it's a very serious case of electoral fraud if it happens.

The bullshit that's throw at Clinton should not allow her campaign to break actual rules because people can't be bothered to tell fake shit from real shit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114172: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:52:24 PM

Had a question based on some fridge brilliance- so, going inside the polling place seems obviously calculated to help Hillary but I don't see how blocking the polling place would be.

Because Democrats are either going to be split between Hillary and Bernie or the Clinton campaign would hope would squarely go to her, and so I don't see what the value would be of blocking the polling place (even though that's effectively what happened).

What I'm saying, is there's no way in that situation to identify Sanders voters to prevent them from voting and conversely, to prevent Clinton voters from being affected.

So, Hanlon's Razor I would think as far as blocking the polling place goes.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#114173: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:53:04 PM

[up]The polling location in question was within a county that had demographics favoring Sanders over Clinton. (The Gore campaign stunt I linked above mentions the traffic jam caused by his retinue mostly affected Bradley voters in wealthy neighborhoods)

I think the issue here is "It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission."

The potential gains from these types of stunts—and from a surrogate rather than Hillary Clinton herself—are far greater than the risk of getting caught and any wrist-slappings.

edited 2nd Mar '16 1:54:55 PM by SolipsistOwl

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#114174: Mar 2nd 2016 at 1:57:50 PM

[up]

Similarly, I'm pretty sure the entire board would be outraged if, say, Ivanka Trump had done something like this, or Drumpf himself. It's just bad behavior and it needs to be legally recognized, even if just by a Fine, in order to clearly communicate that it's not acceptable... if Clinton was, indeed, within 150 feet of the polling place.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#114175: Mar 2nd 2016 at 2:02:03 PM

[up]That's a fair point.

[up][up] From the additional information, the campaigning in front of or near the polling place does sound like it could very well be illegal and voter suppression(for the record "demographics favoring Sanders" means "white", right?).

But yeah, it's basically a situation where all of the fake scandals predispose me to be skeptical of real ones.

edited 2nd Mar '16 2:04:22 PM by Hodor2


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