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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#113351: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:39:21 AM

And the stakes are considerably higher now, which means that a four or even three-way race could destroy absolutely everything.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#113352: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:41:39 AM

Solipsist: The things you're thinking would happen require organizational reforms, I'm pretty sure, which is very much not on anyone's radar here. I'm not sure why you're thinking we'd suddenly end up with a parliamentary system in this election. Or even why it's better. From what I can tell you'd end up merging the legislative and the executive in this instance.

Unless you simply adapt it to what we have now, and it decides the Speaker and such rather than a prime minister. Because that seems like a terrible way to elect a president.

[up]I'm not taking Bloomberg's statements about running seriously at all, and neither Sanders nor Clinton seem like the type to run independent if the other one gets the nomination. They know what's at stake.

edited 26th Feb '16 11:45:51 AM by AceofSpades

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#113353: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:45:52 AM

[up]Saying "We're overdue" in no way implies I believe it'll happen anytime soon, nor that I haven't considered the logistics for reform required.

However, the Ranked Choice Voting Act is current legislation that would do exactly that:

The Ranked Choice Voting Act, a proposal expected to be introduced in the House next year, would require states to elect representatives through ranked choice voting (RCV) and to use multi-winner districts in states with more than one seat. States and cities could pursue similar reforms.

The Ranked Choice Voting Act is the only comprehensive solution to gerrymandering. It creates a level playing field for candidates and parties and an equal voice for voters, while mitigating apportionment inequalities by reducing the number of districts and making more votes count. It could change Congress from a place where more than a third of Americans are represented by someone whose party they strongly oppose to one where every race would be meaningfully contested and nearly everyone would have a representative who reflects at least some of their values.

There are trade-offs, to be sure: Districts would grow larger, and we would need to get used to new forms of constituent service. But such reforms represent a giant step toward voter equality. After the dust from Evenwel settles, we should see whether our political process lives up to the ideal of government “of, by and for the people.”

October 23, 2015: Let’s move beyond winner-take-all elections

edited 26th Feb '16 11:52:42 AM by SolipsistOwl

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#113354: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:46:01 AM

Yeah, I don't think the term "parliamentary" is being used correctly.

We might end up with a multi-party government, which would be interesting. But we have no rule requiring there to be a majority coalition because the legislature doesn't elect the head of state.

Also, the House of Representatives only elects the President if there is an electoral college tie. There is no rule saying that the President can only be elected with 50% or more of the vote; they just need more than any other candidate. Hence the term "first past the post". Whoever finishes in the lead wins, even if they have only one more vote than the second-place finisher and even if they don't have a majority of all votes.

edited 26th Feb '16 11:48:27 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#113355: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:54:38 AM

I belive the president does need over 50% of the electoral college vote, though is it pure FPTP for the house picking the president?

Edit: Never mind, explanation edited in.

edited 26th Feb '16 11:56:04 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#113356: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:14:25 PM

If Sanders wins the primary and Bloomberg actually tries to go through with his threat, I expect both Sanders and Clinton to say "ARE YOU INSANE"? and work in concert to get rid of him. Establishment donors may hate Sanders enough to endorse Bloomberg, but dems aren't stupid enough to let him run.

edited 26th Feb '16 12:14:45 PM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#113357: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:21:13 PM

Bloomberg has 10 times the amount of money Trump has; he doesn't need the DNC's blessing to run.

edited 26th Feb '16 12:21:22 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#113358: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:23:40 PM

Not a question of money. Question of organization. That requires money AND time.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#113359: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:31:49 PM

Bloomberg hasn't given himself a lot of time, in that case.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#113360: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:33:25 PM

Precisely.

On the other hand, I wonder if Bloomberg is trying to give Trump an in (they are very similar if one takes away the bigotry of the Donald), because he must know that is what is going to happen if he runs.

edited 26th Feb '16 12:34:03 PM by FFShinra

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#113361: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:33:56 PM

Then again, hasn't Bloomberg got his own TV network?

Keep Rolling On
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#113362: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:35:03 PM

SEC would force him to divest his interest for the time he is running. Or at least his ability to control the company. Breaks some unfair media coverage law.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#113363: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:46:14 PM

[up] Here we are:

Bloomberg Television. Was founded by, and named for, billionaire Michael Bloomberg, who was also the mayor of New York City for several terms. Noted for its almost excessively technical focus on business and the utter lack of political commentary in either direction.

Interestingly, seems to get on fairly well with The BBC.

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#113364: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:49:40 PM

Bloomberg would only have to divest his interest in his enterprise if he were elected. He can turn over operational control to someone else if he runs, with the caveat that his media empire could not "coordinate" with his campaign or give it favors that it does not extend to other candidates.

At least, I think that's how it works.

edited 26th Feb '16 12:49:52 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#113365: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:57:45 PM

The race going to the house is harder now that electors are more uniform. Before, like in the case of 1824, the idea was that electors had a lot more autonomy, similar to delegates to the party conventions today, and that while they were pledged to a candidate first-round, that wasn't a hard pledge and they were allowed to vote as they pleased when it came down to it. Even as early as 1912, it was the case where winner-take-all plus a more rigid view of what was acceptable for electors meant that first-past-the-post came into play, and that a three-way race meant it was *more* likely for one candidate to score a crushing victory (since in a 3-way race the one who gets 34% of a state gets all of the EC votes). Nowadays a third party candidate is bad news for one party and good news for the other, so long as said candidate draws more from one side or the other.

Ross Perot was the odd exception there, and even he seemed to lean more towards the Trump-ite "both sides are bad but i lean conservative" types, and sapped Bush more than Clinton. Otherwise Bush could have probably eked out a win.

But there it is. Bernie goes third party, President Trump's a lock. Trump goes third party, President Clinton's a lock, without anything ever going to the House of Representatives.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#113366: Feb 26th 2016 at 1:29:33 PM

Bernie's not likely to go third party; he's not that stupid, and he doesn't hate Clinton that much. Trump's a little weirder.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#113367: Feb 26th 2016 at 1:33:24 PM

[up][up]And if both go third party? (I don't believe Sanders would, except maybe in a situation like "Sanders wins most 'normal' delegates but supers give the nomination to Clinton")

edited 26th Feb '16 1:35:34 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#113368: Feb 26th 2016 at 1:42:11 PM

Sanders has basically said he's willing to work with Clinton if she wins the Nomination. The man doesn't want to be ratfucked out of the race, but he knows splitting the proverbial baby here is a fucking stupid idea. (Which is why he's running Dem in the first place).

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#113369: Feb 26th 2016 at 1:45:05 PM

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Sanders had the best retort regarding funding a fix for the Flint crisis - “If we can rebuild villages in Iraq and Afghanistan, we can damn well rebuild Flint, Michigan,”

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#113370: Feb 26th 2016 at 2:23:30 PM

[awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome]

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#113371: Feb 26th 2016 at 2:24:23 PM

Building new cities or rebuilding is an idea beyond most people's minds at this time and day, it seems

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#113373: Feb 26th 2016 at 2:43:12 PM

[up]X4 Some would dispute how successful thouse rebuildings were. .

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#113374: Feb 26th 2016 at 2:44:25 PM

[up][up] Anything about Sanders?

Keep Rolling On
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#113375: Feb 26th 2016 at 2:53:16 PM

edited 26th Feb '16 3:11:34 PM by SolipsistOwl


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