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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112876: Feb 23rd 2016 at 8:55:47 AM

GIVE NO FUCKS OBAMA FTW!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#112877: Feb 23rd 2016 at 8:57:28 AM

Meh. Kinda dissonant given what's going on elsewhere in the world, but fine.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#112878: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:07:02 AM

I mean, Guantanamo Bay is a horrible place, and the US should be ashamed of itself for the way it was run, so I think that shutting it down is a good thing.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112879: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:32:34 AM

Gitmo has been a symbol of the state-sponsored, extrajudicial detainment and torture program that was initiated under George W. Bush, and closing it was a signature goal of Obama's 2008 campaign. For him to deliver on that promise before leaving office would be pretty significant from a moral perspective, even if it has no significant economic, security, or geopolitical impact.

edited 23rd Feb '16 9:33:02 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#112880: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:35:53 AM

The trouble with removing FPTP is that whilst it prevents a left-alternative to the Democrats emerging, it also prevents a right-alternative to the Republicans emerging. How might American politics be different, for example, if we'd had FPTP in the 1960s? What damage might a 'States Rights' Party have done to the process of deseg?
The problem is that the support is still there, even if the actual representation is not. Is it better to give people like racist extreme right-wingers and anti-intellectual extreme left-wingers (the anti-vaxxer, anti-GMO crowd) their own parties with a tiny fraction of representation at the federal level, or to let the more mainstream big tent parties court those people for their votes? At least with fringe parties, you get people to actually state their honest beliefs in public, rather than relying on dog whistles and the like.

How would getting rid of FPTP prevent alternatives from coming up? It's FPTP that already does so.
He's not saying that getting rid of FPTP would prevent alternatives, he's saying that using FPTP does — and that, in some ways, that's a good thing, since it keeps the fringe crowd — the literal Nazis and Communists — from having any representation (and thus legitimacy) at the national level.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#112881: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:44:55 AM

Ah. I misunderstood then.

I think letting their ideas hit the wall of reality would give them their natural death rather than simply suppressing them would be.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#112882: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:49:16 AM

Unfortunately, that's not really the case, especially when they can run as anti-establishment and blame everything on the mainstream parties in power. Things like the Golden Dawn party in Greece have enjoyed not-insignificant popularity, despite being literal fascists.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#112883: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:49:51 AM

What we are seeing with both the Republican and Democratic Parties is the moderates being pushed out, because being moderate does not work anymore. The Business and the War Hawks were the moderates of the Republican Party and both had failed their constituents because of the Financial Crisis and Iraq War, so the Religious Right, Racists, and Libertarians demand control over the party.

The Democrats push to the left is really a reaction to the Republicans' push to the right. There is no compromising with the Republican Party as it currently is now that it's been hijacked by the Religious Right, Racists and Libertarians, and the Democratic Party is failing to do the one thing the opposition party is supposed to do when their competition is weak as the infighting Republicans are which is seizing control of all branches of government. As said before, the DWS is more interested in the Presidency and fundraising than Congress, but the only way Democratic control can be truly established is if there is both a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, since any Republican Congress under the control of the Religious Right, Racists, and Libertarians will say no to a Democratic President as a matter of course like they've been doing to Barack Obama. While Hillary will likely achieve the nomination and likely win the election, the people supporting Sanders over her are not going away or leaving the Democratic Party.

In addition, this is the age of social media, where being extreme gets a person noticed and talked about. This is why both Trump and Sanders are doing as well as they have been doing... Both are extreme compared to the dominate culture of the United States and extreme in the ways that the far right and far left love, respectfully. Both are also outsiders challenging the establishment who is seen to have failed the cause for a good number of constituents. The end game for both parties seem to be the moderates being pushed out in favor of more extreme viewpoints.

edited 23rd Feb '16 9:52:20 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112884: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:59:15 AM

Looks like Secretary of State John Kerry is throwing former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton under the bus:

State Department staffers are not allowed to use private servers for official classified business, Secretary John Kerry told the Senate on Tuesday.

“In today’s world, given all that we’ve learned and what we understand about the vulnerability of our system, we don’t do that, no,” Kerry said while testifying in a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing.

The remark, which came in response to a question from Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), serves as an orchestrated Republican jab at Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, whose exclusive use of a “homebrew” email arrangement has roiled GOP critics in Washington.

Kerry: State Dept. staffers can't use private server

Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday that the several investigations into Hillary Clinton's private email system has significantly tied up the State Department over the last year, despite the more than $2 million Congress gave State to deal with it.

"We have more than 50 ... simultaneous investigations going on, and we have an unprecedented number of FOIA requests," Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "I have had to cannibalize bureaus to get people to go spend their time on these requests."

"I'm concerned about it because this is tying up international diplomats," he said.

Kerry: Clinton email probe 'tying up international diplomats'

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:03:59 AM by SolipsistOwl

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#112885: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:07:05 AM

Both [Trump and Sanders] are extreme compared to the dominate culture of the United States and extreme in the ways that the far right and far left love, respectfully.
That's true in the US, but the weird thing about it is that on a global scale, Sanders is moderate left and Trump is right-wing fringe. The US's "center" is Europe's moderate right.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#112886: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:25:22 AM

Depends. I myself would argue that ideas right of American conservatism are simply less popular globally than ideas left of American Liberalism.

Leviticus 19:34
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#112887: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:27:21 AM

"For him to deliver on that promise before leaving office would be pretty significant from a moral perspective, even if it has no significant economic, security, or geopolitical impact"

Too little, too late,and besides,what's stopping the next President from reopening the prison under another name?

I'm of the opinion that there needs to be change in the rules,maybe in the constitution itself to ensure that a prison like that can never be established again

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:27:45 AM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#112888: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:02:11 AM

Will this even pass through the Congress?

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112889: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:05:17 AM

[up][up] Nothing is stopping them, obviously. So you'd better hope a Democrat wins.

[up] As Congress is currently constituted, it is unlikely that the Pentagon's proposal will even come up for a vote.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:05:40 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#112890: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:08:51 AM

A Republican win in November (unless the Dems take decisive control of the Senate and hold it for 4-8 years) will result civil rights being set back decades in a lot of areas. And it will take a few more decades to fix that, if any of the liberal justices die/retire. Even Kasich would probably have this happen, and he's supposed to be the "sane" one.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#112891: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:14:33 AM

A Republican win, without a doubt, would be catastrophic not only for the USA, but for everyone it's going to... to put in general terms, do nasty things to. Good thing no one but Trump has any idea how to win anymore, and he's got that "Anyone but Trump" massive voter base going against him.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:15:40 AM by Luminosity

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#112892: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:14:59 AM

Bob Dole endorses Marco Rubio after Jeb Bush drops out.

Spike Lee to endorse Bernie Sanders, will voice Ad for the Senator.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:18:07 AM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112893: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:34:03 AM

Holy shit:

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan of Washington came in a lawsuit over public records brought by Judicial Watch, a conservative legal watchdog group, regarding its May 2013 request, for information about the employment arrangement of Huma Abedin, a longtime Clinton aide.

[* * *]

Sullivan also suggested from the bench that he might at some point order the department to subpoena Clinton and Abedin, to return all records related to Clinton’s private account, not just those their camps have previously deemed work-related and returned.

“There has been a constant drip, drip, drip of declarations. When does it stop?” Sullivan said, adding that months of piecemeal revelations about Clinton and the State Department’s handling of the email controversy create “at least a ‘reasonable suspicion’ ” that public access to official government records under the federal Freedom of Information Act was undermined. “This case is about the public’s right to know.”

U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:35:18 AM by SolipsistOwl

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#112894: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:51:53 AM

That's true in the US, but the weird thing about it is that on a global scale, Sanders is moderate left and Trump is right-wing fringe. The US's "center" is Europe's moderate right.

That is true, which is why I specified the dominant culture of the United States which is to the right of all first world nations. That being said, I don't expect a Republican to win the White House and expect them to lose control of the Senate, thusly shifting the Supreme Court liberal. Yes, even against Sanders. I actually support Sanders for president and don't particularly want Hillary as president. That being said, the Democratic nominee could be an inanimate log and still be a better choice than the current Republican circus, especially when this election is now for all the marbles.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:53:34 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#112895: Feb 23rd 2016 at 12:40:48 PM

The problem is that the support is still there, even if the actual representation is not. Is it better to give people like racist extreme right-wingers and anti-intellectual extreme left-wingers (the anti-vaxxer, anti-GMO crowd) their own parties with a tiny fraction of representation at the federal level, or to let the more mainstream big tent parties court those people for their votes?

The idea that these parties will be unpopular is a naive view. The European anti-immigration parties that sprung up during the 2000s have proved nothing but resilient. Disenfranchising extremists at a national level is not necessarily a bad thing; I think the US is stronger for not having its own equivalent of the PVV or Front National to shit things up in Washington, even if the price you pay is a Republican party that isn't that far from them.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#112896: Feb 23rd 2016 at 12:42:04 PM

The thing with movements like the anti-vaxxers, they are popular enough to cause real actual damage. Diseases that vaccination has eradicated long ago are returning just because of these ignorant, dangerous scumbags.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#112897: Feb 23rd 2016 at 1:02:18 PM

Supposedly the establishment is now throwing their support behind Rubio. Who scares me because he has (apparently) an actual chance of winning against a Democrat.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#112898: Feb 23rd 2016 at 1:04:18 PM

Does Rubio-bot? Who fled from his only attempted legislative achievement in the senate, who has record-high absentee rates and has gone on record saying that he doesn't like his job and is just seatwarming for the presidency? Who's wife is employed to do nothing for a charity run by his biggest benefactor?

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#112899: Feb 23rd 2016 at 1:04:58 PM

The idea that these parties will be unpopular is a naive view.
The question isn't how popular they would be — presumably, the ideas behind them exist regardless of whether the parties themselves do. The question is 1) whether they can do more damage as independent fringe parties than they do as influence within a larger mainstream party, and 2) whether the harm (if any) of that is worth the benefit (...if any) of breaking up the big tent Republican/Democratic parties into smaller more coherent parties.

Basically, the two-party system has the problem of hiding more nuanced views under more generic "left" and "right" viewpoints. Breaking up the two-party system would mean getting rid of that, for good or ill.

edited 23rd Feb '16 1:06:27 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#112900: Feb 23rd 2016 at 1:05:44 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]It may not initially be unpopular...they aren't unpopular now. But as with Prohibition, exposure to reality defeats ideas that can't withstand practical scrutiny. Anti-vaxxers as a movement would be destroyed. The Tea Party, which is stronger at the state level, are already being discredited by the likes of Flint.

The problem with suppressing ideas is that they don't stay suppressed, especially when its big tent politics being used to do it. The Republicans are now getting hijacked by the John Birchers that were ousted half a century before. The Democrats are a bit better off, but not by much (for those who are moderate anyway).

EDIT-

Somewhat [nja]

edited 23rd Feb '16 1:07:15 PM by FFShinra


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