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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
X3 So the US has no responsibility to put out the fire it started? No duty to help those it harmed? It's totally okay for the US to make a mess then leave others to clean it up?
This might surprise you but the US isn't the first country to fuck with the Middle East, unless it helps the region get better it won't be the last, don't do what we Brits did, pack up in your boats and leave the place with a mess we created, that's how the Palestine-Israel conflict got started.
Plus you've only spoke about the Middle East, there are other regions, what about East Asia? What about Pakistan and the rest of South Asia? What about the Balken countries that still have US troops helping stabilise them?
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:09:47 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranMisplaced Nationalism isn't only a problem in the American South (And with the Capital of the US is in the South along with about half the original colonies and the bulk of their military, they at least have a excuse for it). The American Northeast is also guilty of it, as Trump and his supporters in New Hampshire show.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:10:52 PM by Bat178
Did I ever suggest that the U.S. should adopt an isolationist stance, or abandon the Middle East? No.
I simply believe that the U.S. needs to stop arbitrarily warring on the Middle East and supporting regimes that disenfranchise and oppress its people. We literally give and sell billions of dollars of weapons to Saudia Arabia and Israel, when those two nations probably hate us more than any other in the region.
Quite bluntly Israel exists because we allow it. During their last culling of Palestinians they ran out of ammunition. Their whole military. They had to beg us for a shipment. Without US support and weaponry Israel would fall.
Which would probably mean the surrounding nations get nuked when it does.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:18:45 PM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?Yes.
As for.
Nope, I'd go with Yeman and Iran for that position, though Syria might be up there (also Palestine if you recognise it). Hell even if we're talking people over government Saudi Arabia still has nothing on Iran, Yeman and Iraq. As for Israel, the current government might not like Obama but both the government and people still like the US a lot.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:20:41 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe M-16/M-4 family of weapons does not need to be replaced. Any brand-new weapons system that they might adopt today is guaranteed to have its own set of teething problems, and there's no reason to go through that fiasco all over again. The new stuff may be newer and flashier and look cooler, but is it really -demonstrably- better? I doubt it.
If you have something that generally works, but has a few issues, you keep it, while addressing those issues and fixing them. You don't throw the entire shebang in the garbage and start again from scratch. Especially not when you already have tons of spare parts and accessories in stock for the weapons system you currently use.
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Iran is a relatively stable nation that has been cooperating with and fighting alongside the United States and our allies for years.
Saudi Arabia is an apartheid state and the largest foreign state-sponsor of terrorism. They execute hundreds of people a year—many based solely on their religion and other human rights violations.
How can you compare the two? Iran is not our enemy. Iran is Israel's enemy.
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Palestine does not have guided rockets. They were essentially blindly shooting bottle rockets over a fence, and missing 99% of the time.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:30:47 PM by SolipsistOwl
Israel stuff can be discussed in detail in the Israel topic, otherwise people can shut up if they want to avoid getting thumped by an angry mod.
What on earth are you talking about? Iran has been fighting ISIS, but that's not alongside the US or its allies, also the history goes back more then a few years, there are sanctions, the US (and UK) imposed dictatorship, the time the US shot down a plane of civilians, there's lots of bad blood there.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:36:26 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIt's not state sponsored, it's sponsored by members of the state yes, but thouse are different things, and again you lean on the human rights record, yes Saudi Arabia has a horrible human rights records, that doesn't mean it doesn't like the US, that means it's the US's pet dictatorship.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranFolks, as much as I enjoy reading this back-and-forth, Israel discussion goes in the dedicated topic, and nowhere else. Jack, if you don't cut it out with the hysteria, it will be cut out for you.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:37:13 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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And the time Iran took our embassy workers hostage, and sponsored terorism against our nationals. Funny how nobody ever mentions that around here.
And how is Saudi Arabia Apartheid? Religiously intolerant and bigoted and murderous sure, but Apartheid is a specific condition related to ethnic separation, which to my knowledge, does not exist in Saudi Arabia.
Edit:
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:40:08 PM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.Jack we have a topic for Israel-Palestine, you're the only person to ignore my suggestion to take it there, maybe that's why you got thumped?
Though I'll admit that for once you're not the most hysterical person in this thread.
And fair point on the Iranian side of the US-Iran conflict, it's been far from one side only doing bad stuff.
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:43:21 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Saudia Arabia practices apartheid over its female population. Apartheid is not restricted to race.
Great piece discussing the recent Politico article
on Sanders' 1974 call to abolish the CIA.
In 1974 Call to Abolish CIA, Sanders Followed in Footsteps of JFK, Truman
“Every candidate who has ever received special interest money always says that the millions and millions of dollars that they receive will never influence them. Never. Never. Never,” he said. “If these contributions from Wall Street and other powerful special interests have no influence over the candidate, why are these special interests making huge campaign contributions?
“Maybe they're dummies and maybe they just think they can throw millions of dollars at a candidate and expect to get nothing from that. Maybe. I doubt that very much,” he continued.
While Sanders has made similar insinuations about Clinton in the past (and has been accused by her of running a negative campaign of innuendo), today he was more forceful and blunt than he has been recently. He even named Clinton’s super PAC, Priorities USA, explicitly and spoke about how much money both Clinton and her super PAC have raised from Wall Street.
Sanders Mocks Idea That Wall Street Money Won't Influence Hillary Clinton
edited 22nd Feb '16 4:43:06 PM by SolipsistOwl
Can we go back to talking about Misplaced Nationalism in the US instead of this Israel/Saudia Arabia debate?

I'd argue that one of America's biggest military advantages will soon be its drone army. Drones are bringing the digital revolution to the battlefield.
As for rifles: keep in mind that warfare is currently not fought at the infantry level very often. Rifles are more important for holding territory rather than capturing it.
Leviticus 19:34