TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#112826: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:08:48 PM

I'd argue that one of America's biggest military advantages will soon be its drone army. Drones are bringing the digital revolution to the battlefield.

As for rifles: keep in mind that warfare is currently not fought at the infantry level very often. Rifles are more important for holding territory rather than capturing it.

Leviticus 19:34
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112827: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:08:52 PM

[up]X3 So the US has no responsibility to put out the fire it started? No duty to help those it harmed? It's totally okay for the US to make a mess then leave others to clean it up?

This might surprise you but the US isn't the first country to fuck with the Middle East, unless it helps the region get better it won't be the last, don't do what we Brits did, pack up in your boats and leave the place with a mess we created, that's how the Palestine-Israel conflict got started.

Plus you've only spoke about the Middle East, there are other regions, what about East Asia? What about Pakistan and the rest of South Asia? What about the Balken countries that still have US troops helping stabilise them?

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:09:47 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#112828: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:08:56 PM

Misplaced Nationalism isn't only a problem in the American South (And with the Capital of the US is in the South along with about half the original colonies and the bulk of their military, they at least have a excuse for it). The American Northeast is also guilty of it, as Trump and his supporters in New Hampshire show.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:10:52 PM by Bat178

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112829: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:11:24 PM

Did I ever suggest that the U.S. should adopt an isolationist stance, or abandon the Middle East? No.

I simply believe that the U.S. needs to stop arbitrarily warring on the Middle East and supporting regimes that disenfranchise and oppress its people. We literally give and sell billions of dollars of weapons to Saudia Arabia and Israel, when those two nations probably hate us more than any other in the region.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112830: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:14:18 PM

Those nations are stable. Horrible but stable. Without stability you get ISIS.

That's why the Russians were backing Assad even though he was gassing his own people.

Oh really when?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112831: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:15:20 PM

Israel is in a state of perpetual apartheid over Palestine that will soon break into Civil War.

They would also rather support ISIS over the United States' interests.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112832: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:17:35 PM

Quite bluntly Israel exists because we allow it. During their last culling of Palestinians they ran out of ammunition. Their whole military. They had to beg us for a shipment. Without US support and weaponry Israel would fall.

Which would probably mean the surrounding nations get nuked when it does.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:18:45 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112833: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:19:13 PM

And that situation is not stable. We're maintaining the status quo, when that has proven for decades not to work.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112834: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:19:16 PM

Did I ever suggest that the U.S. should adopt an isolationist stance, or abandon the Middle East? No.

Yes.

It's not exactly rocket science: leave the Middle East alone, and they'll leave us alone.

War is obsolete, from the American perspective.

As for.

Saudia Arabia and Israel, when those two nations probably hate us more than any other in the region.

Nope, I'd go with Yeman and Iran for that position, though Syria might be up there (also Palestine if you recognise it). Hell even if we're talking people over government Saudi Arabia still has nothing on Iran, Yeman and Iraq. As for Israel, the current government might not like Obama but both the government and people still like the US a lot.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:20:41 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#112835: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:21:12 PM

The M-16/M-4 family of weapons does not need to be replaced. Any brand-new weapons system that they might adopt today is guaranteed to have its own set of teething problems, and there's no reason to go through that fiasco all over again. The new stuff may be newer and flashier and look cooler, but is it really -demonstrably- better? I doubt it.

If you have something that generally works, but has a few issues, you keep it, while addressing those issues and fixing them. You don't throw the entire shebang in the garbage and start again from scratch. Especially not when you already have tons of spare parts and accessories in stock for the weapons system you currently use.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112836: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:21:35 PM

Iran has been fighting ISIS in Iraq for a couple years now. Saudi Arabia crucifies Christians and Jews, as of this year.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112837: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:22:49 PM

[up] I fail to see how any of that is relevant to a nation's option of the US, if it's a nice place run by nice people sure, but not if it likes the US.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#112838: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:27:27 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] For fucks sake it wasn't a culling, they were responding to rocket attacks on their cities by Hamas. Disproportionate sure, though I personally I think proportionality when it comes to warfare is morally,not strategically, a load of bull.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112839: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:28:45 PM

It's a culling. Wanton murder of civilians and collective punishment are unacceptable. Especially when Israel holds all the power in the situation.

Oh really when?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112840: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:30:23 PM

[up][up][up]Iran is a relatively stable nation that has been cooperating with and fighting alongside the United States and our allies for years.

Saudi Arabia is an apartheid state and the largest foreign state-sponsor of terrorism. They execute hundreds of people a year—many based solely on their religion and other human rights violations.

How can you compare the two? Iran is not our enemy. Iran is Israel's enemy.

[up][up]Palestine does not have guided rockets. They were essentially blindly shooting bottle rockets over a fence, and missing 99% of the time.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:30:47 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112841: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:31:01 PM

Israel stuff can be discussed in detail in the Israel topic, otherwise people can shut up if they want to avoid getting thumped by an angry mod.

Iran is a relatively stable nation that has been cooperating with and fighting alongside the United States and our allies for years.

What on earth are you talking about? Iran has been fighting ISIS, but that's not alongside the US or its allies, also the history goes back more then a few years, there are sanctions, the US (and UK) imposed dictatorship, the time the US shot down a plane of civilians, there's lots of bad blood there.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:36:26 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112842: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:32:36 PM

It's kind of hard to divorce discussion of Israel from the topic of American foreign policy, but I'm content to leave it alone.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#112843: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:34:24 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112844: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:34:36 PM

Saudi Arabia is an apartheid state and the largest foreign state-sponsor of terrorism. They execute hundreds of people a year—many based solely on their religion and other human rights violations.

It's not state sponsored, it's sponsored by members of the state yes, but thouse are different things, and again you lean on the human rights record, yes Saudi Arabia has a horrible human rights records, that doesn't mean it doesn't like the US, that means it's the US's pet dictatorship.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112845: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:36:37 PM

Folks, as much as I enjoy reading this back-and-forth, Israel discussion goes in the dedicated topic, and nowhere else. Jack, if you don't cut it out with the hysteria, it will be cut out for you.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:37:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#112846: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:36:49 PM

[up][up][up][up] And the time Iran took our embassy workers hostage, and sponsored terorism against our nationals. Funny how nobody ever mentions that around here.

And how is Saudi Arabia Apartheid? Religiously intolerant and bigoted and murderous sure, but Apartheid is a specific condition related to ethnic separation, which to my knowledge, does not exist in Saudi Arabia.

Edit: [nja]

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:40:08 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#112847: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:39:08 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112848: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:40:42 PM

Jack we have a topic for Israel-Palestine, you're the only person to ignore my suggestion to take it there, maybe that's why you got thumped?

Though I'll admit that for once you're not the most hysterical person in this thread.

And fair point on the Iranian side of the US-Iran conflict, it's been far from one side only doing bad stuff.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:43:21 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#112849: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:41:47 PM

[up][up]Saudia Arabia practices apartheid over its female population. Apartheid is not restricted to race.

Great piece discussing the recent Politico article on Sanders' 1974 call to abolish the CIA.

In 1974 Call to Abolish CIA, Sanders Followed in Footsteps of JFK, Truman

During a fiery press conference in Boston this afternoon, Bernie Sanders went after Hillary Clinton and her super PAC for their fundraising tactics.

“Every candidate who has ever received special interest money always says that the millions and millions of dollars that they receive will never influence them. Never. Never. Never,” he said. “If these contributions from Wall Street and other powerful special interests have no influence over the candidate, why are these special interests making huge campaign contributions?

“Maybe they're dummies and maybe they just think they can throw millions of dollars at a candidate and expect to get nothing from that. Maybe. I doubt that very much,” he continued.

While Sanders has made similar insinuations about Clinton in the past (and has been accused by her of running a negative campaign of innuendo), today he was more forceful and blunt than he has been recently. He even named Clinton’s super PAC, Priorities USA, explicitly and spoke about how much money both Clinton and her super PAC have raised from Wall Street.

Sanders Mocks Idea That Wall Street Money Won't Influence Hillary Clinton

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:43:06 PM by SolipsistOwl

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#112850: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:53:04 PM

Can we go back to talking about Misplaced Nationalism in the US instead of this Israel/Saudia Arabia debate?


Total posts: 417,856
Top