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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112301: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:29:38 PM

That's not "The point stands". Do you hear yourself? "We need this new plane because all of our old ones are falling apart. Well, except for this one and this other one and this other one."

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#112302: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:33:06 PM

Those aircraft don't all do the same things, though. The Super Hornet is a carrier-based fighter and the Silent Eagle doesn't fit the requirements that the USAF has set.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112303: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:33:16 PM

The A-10 is tougher than most other aircraft. Hell it's arguably the toughest aircraft flying in the sky period right now with the only possible exception of the Su-25.

And even then it really should be retired due to it's age. It just fills a totally unique role that's very much needed in the current war against insurgents.

Oh really when?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#112304: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:34:44 PM

It's also far too slow to be of much use outside the context of COIN ops, despite all the 'muh BRRRT', 'muh aluminium bathtub', and 'muh virtually-nonexistent Rudel design input'. The life of the A-10 fleet in Europe in the event of a Soviet offensive was estimated by NATO planners as 3 days, and that was in the 1980s.

It's just an ill-conceived meme aircraft in general. 'Let's have an aircraft whose low-and-slow attack profile takes it through the engagement envelopes of AAA and SAMs' 'Gee, what a fine idea!'. Even in Desert Storm F-16s were less risky.

edited 16th Feb '16 4:40:55 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Shawnsummer7 Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#112305: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:40:22 PM

And if we start building entirely new military equipment, from planes, tanks, submarines, etc. it has to be built by someone. Wouldn't that create some more jobs?

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#112306: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:41:47 PM

[up]

You have divined perhaps one of the central motivating forces for modern defence procurement. It has to be built somewhere, and that somewhere is often a particular policymaker's Congressional district.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112307: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:42:04 PM

The A-10 really is only good for one thing. Thankfully for BRRRRT fans it does that one thing better than damn near anything else and that one thing is all we're doing right now.

If any sort of symmetrical warfare goes down it's gonna be lunch.

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112308: Feb 16th 2016 at 5:07:22 PM

What's brt? [up]Is It Something You Eat?

edited 16th Feb '16 5:07:54 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112309: Feb 16th 2016 at 5:14:35 PM

It's something technicals eat.

Oh really when?
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#112310: Feb 16th 2016 at 5:36:46 PM

And tanks. And infantry . And anything else unfortunate to be in the crosshairs.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
daird Since: Jul, 2014
#112311: Feb 16th 2016 at 5:38:50 PM

[up][up] Not sure if joking or serious. In case the latter:

The A-10 Warthog is pretty much an experiment in "how big a Gatling gun can we stick on a plane and still have it able to fly?" The answer, it turns out, is pretty damn big. Unfortunately, it's slow as molasses. The BRRRRT references come from the sound the Gatling makes as it's fired; it sounds EXACTLY like the world's biggest fart being ripped.

Forward, boys! For God's sake, forward!
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#112312: Feb 16th 2016 at 5:50:37 PM

The recoil from the gun slows down the plane, so they only fire it in short bursts. Sustained fire could (in theory) make the plane stall and drop out of the sky like a brick.

edited 16th Feb '16 5:58:32 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#112313: Feb 16th 2016 at 6:00:40 PM

The A-10 is staying because the Army wants to keep it, because it's a good plane for what the Army needs done. Therefore, retiring it would be a bad idea unless we have something better for said mission - and honestly, for COIN and CAS, we don't need new-generation stealth craft.

The F-35, meanwhile, is an example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy in action. We have enough interceptors for the foreseeable future (the Raptor, program killed as it is), we have enough fighters for the expected missions we'll need to face in the next decade, and I said that the F-35 should have been killed long ago - the US should have bought this generation's fighters from Europe, and damned with American exceptionalism and Not Made Here.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#112314: Feb 16th 2016 at 7:11:34 PM

[up] Yeah. Just because something is made in America doesn't mean it's automatically better than something made in Europe or Asia. They make plenty of good stuff too, a lot of it better than American stuff.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#112315: Feb 16th 2016 at 7:29:09 PM

Well, there is no way in hell the US is giving the Euros the schematics and compositions of the EM absorbent paintings used in the B-2, F-22 and F-35 so not everything can be produced abroad.

Besides the US is the only country on Earth that actively fields VLO aircraft with the other countries either having prototypes, test units or mock ups.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#112316: Feb 16th 2016 at 9:58:38 PM

I seem to remember that early on, the F-16 inherited the F-104s nickname (well, one of them) of "Lawn Dart".

Nothing new. In fact, I think there were several attempts to kill off the Teen-series fighters, in some cases over costnote .

edited 16th Feb '16 9:58:54 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#112317: Feb 17th 2016 at 2:38:07 AM

The US has tried to retire the A-10 like 15 times and use multirole aircraft but they just suck at the flying Gatling Gun role that is needed on today's battlefield. The airforce said year it would take 15 years to actually design a modern flying Gatling Gun.

People just forget how good low speed dive bombers like it actually are.

edited 17th Feb '16 2:39:31 AM by Memers

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112318: Feb 17th 2016 at 2:45:35 AM

@Serious or joking: I present my ignorance in a humourous way.

Well, this is all very interesting and curious, but I think it belongs to the Military Thread.

I wondery why people can't seem to summon this kind of interest for, say, dams. Or bridges. Or trains.

edited 17th Feb '16 2:47:02 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#112319: Feb 17th 2016 at 2:48:52 AM

[up][up]Goes to show: no matter the theatre of war, there is always a role to be found for A Really Big Gun.

Been true since the first cannon. smile

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#112320: Feb 17th 2016 at 3:07:58 AM

To get back on topic, how many states does each candidate have to win over?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112321: Feb 17th 2016 at 4:04:25 AM

It's not down to states, it's down to the number of delegates, states awards delegates in a variety of ways (generally a proportional amount with a minimum percentage needed to get any) but generally once one candidate has what's seen as an unbreakable lead others will drop out and the delegates will all go to the winner.

That makes me wonder actually, at least some of the republicans who've dropped out had delegates, who do they go to now?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#112323: Feb 17th 2016 at 4:41:43 AM

Doing a bit more digging I've found that it varies between not only states but also the parties. So for the Dems all states must award delegates promotionaly, while for the Republicans the systems vary. On top of that the number of delegates that are party officials varies, with the Republicans it's three top officials from each state or territory, while for the Dems representatives, senators, governors, DNC members and "distinguished party leaders" are all super delegates (meaning that Bernie gets to vote for himself and Hillary gets a vote from Bill).

Still basic numbers, for the Republican nomination it takes 1,144 delegates to win and for the Dem nomination it takes 2,382 delegates to win (though that could change a little due to how the Dem super delegate number can change).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#112324: Feb 17th 2016 at 6:30:32 AM

Just saying. All of you are goddamn gun NNNNNNNEEEEEEEERRRRRDDDDDSSSSSS

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#112325: Feb 17th 2016 at 6:42:30 AM

I can't remember, did we discuss Cruz' attempt to strip Americans of citizenship without evidence? Is this a case of if he can't be American, neither will anyone else? Excerpt quoted.

To understand that, consider some background on what the government currently can and can't do: As per the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, citizenship is a right, not a privilege. As Justice Byron White explained in the 1980 Vance vs. Terraza ruling, "Expatriation depends on the will of the citizen rather than on the will of Congress and its assessment of his conduct."

This means that the government cannot strip Americans of their citizenship without their consent — no matter how heinous their offense. "The government must establish that the individual knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally relinquished his right," notes Georgetown University's David Cole, "just as courts must establish that an individual knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally waived his trial rights before accepting a guilty plea."

But what the government can do is intercept ISIS agents when they try and re-enter the country, charge them with treason, sedition, or any number of other crimes, obtain a conviction, and put them away for a long time. The government can even potentially execute them. After a conviction — and only after that — Uncle Sam can launch a separate civil expatriation review to show that the offender intended to relinquish his or her citizenship, but with a lower evidentiary bar than the original conviction. Under current law, these offenses include such acts as bearing arms against the United States and incitement to rebellion.

Cruz's bill would change two things:

1. It would authorize the government to revoke citizenship rights without a court conviction.

2. It would also expand the list of expatriatable offenses to include "training" and "material assistance" to terrorist groups without defining either of those terms.

<snip>

The scariest part of the bill is that without due process or a trial or the presumption of innocence, many innocent Americans would be condemned without having any opportunity to refute the evidence against them. The government can accuse them of whatever it wants on whatever grounds it likes without challenge. This is the kind of thing that passes for justice in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

But also troubling is that the government could use its citizenship-stripping powers to persecute political actions that go against standing government policy. If merely offering "material assistance" is the standard, then what is to stop the government from revoking the citizenship of black Muslim Americans who distribute pro-Hamas material? Or Irish Americans who hand out pro-Irish Republican Army pamphlets? Both outfits are or have been on the government's terrorist list.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

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