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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112276: Feb 16th 2016 at 1:40:21 PM

[up][up]A nationalization of the military industry is in order.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112277: Feb 16th 2016 at 1:43:01 PM

I'm inclined to agree but there's no way in hell that would happen in today's political climate.

Oh really when?
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#112278: Feb 16th 2016 at 1:43:22 PM

[up][up][up]

A big part of the issue with that particular fighter was the good ol' Sunk Cost Fallacy kicking into overdrive, coupled with the even larger, underlying issue of various elected officials wanting to make sure that the money that was currently going to the production and research for this (and other) project(s), and thereby their constituencies would continue to go there.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#112279: Feb 16th 2016 at 1:49:55 PM

@ Handle: I think there are one or two Tropers about who'd have something to say about that — and remember, sometimes the problems aren't the fault of industry.

It's the procurement system either the Military themselves, or the Governmentnote  is at fault. It's endemic to British procurement, but has happened in the US.

Nationalisation does not mean everything when it comes to Defence procurement will be perfect. Far from it.

[up] With the F-35, that's gone Globalnote . Components are made all over the world, even major parts of the aircraft.

edited 16th Feb '16 1:56:40 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#112281: Feb 16th 2016 at 1:53:06 PM

Cruz's Tax Plans Seen Aiding Wealthy, Costing $8.6 Trillion (which is more than all of Sanders' spending proposals.)

Hands up who isn't surprised by this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Shawnsummer7 Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#112282: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:10:41 PM

No surprise, Reagan's plans even benefited the wealthy more than the poor. No thanks @any Republican

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#112283: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:13:31 PM

[up][up] Nothing surprises me anymore.

Have politicans ever been good at math in general?

edited 16th Feb '16 2:15:55 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112284: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:16:07 PM

"Nationalisation does not mean everything when it comes to Defence procurement will be perfect. Far from it."

Not in a system where voters are ill-informed and impotent to get their will across, I'll grant you that. State ownership working properly depends crucially on democracy working properly. In the US, it doesn't.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#112285: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:17:09 PM

Hands up who isn't surprised by this.

I am surprised it doesnt cost more

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112286: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:29:29 PM

If I had a dollar for every time someone responded to criticism of the F-35 project with, "But we need a new fighter," I'd be able to independently fund the development of a new plane that actually, y'know, works.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112287: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:38:05 PM

It's true unfortunately. We're just straight up out of time.

We literally cannot use our current batch of fighters anymore, they are literally falling to pieces.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112288: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:40:26 PM

Look up "literally". It does not mean what you appear to think it means.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112289: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:42:04 PM

No I mean they literally are. The airframes are decades old and experiencing serious metal fatigue.

They are genuinely falling apart at the seams. There's not much we can do about it either, shit's just old.

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112290: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:42:19 PM

Inconceivable!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#112291: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:45:34 PM

[up][up] Don't forget about the vehicles and weapons that also need replacing.

edited 16th Feb '16 2:46:07 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#112292: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:47:10 PM

And we scrapped the production lines, apparently. Man, for a military that's forward thinking, we're certainly pretty stupid.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#112293: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:49:35 PM

You can rebuild them. You have the technology.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112294: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:50:20 PM

[up][up]We sort of assumed the F-35 wouldn't be the worst trainwreck in Western R&D history.

This was a mistake.

[up]We can but the cost of restarting production would barely be less than designing a new plane altogether.

So yeah.

edited 16th Feb '16 2:51:13 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#112295: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:52:11 PM

A clear case of didn't think this through.

Then again this is the same military that scrapped the Warthog and relies on an almost 50yr old rifle.

edited 16th Feb '16 2:56:24 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#112296: Feb 16th 2016 at 2:54:54 PM

Paint them red, with lightning bolts on it?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#112297: Feb 16th 2016 at 3:10:33 PM

We can but the cost of restarting production would barely be less than designing a new plane altogether.

Wait, so the production line of the unfinished model is already in place?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#112298: Feb 16th 2016 at 3:30:44 PM

Bits of it. All the parts are made from multiple lines in multiple states and indeed multiple countries.

All for the sake of profits.

Oh really when?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#112299: Feb 16th 2016 at 3:35:14 PM

Regarding the F-35, it's far from a perfect aircraft, but it's not the complete shitshow that people paint it as, either. People give it way more crap than it deserves for a variety of reasons. One, it's the first fighter to grow up in the internet era, which means people get a much better view of the sausage-making than they used to. It's normal for new designs to have issues that are ironed out in production. This used to go on behind closed doors among people whose job is to find and fix those issues, but now the internet explodes every time an internal report is leaked. Two, there's a lot of rose color glasses involved here. The teen series of American fighter planes did not roll off the assembly line as flawless examples of American ingenuity and precision engineering. They had their share of teething troubles, but that was forty plus years ago, so no one remembers it. We've had literally decades to iron out the bugs and get accustomed to the strengths and weaknesses of the aircraft. The reaction is no longer "it can't XYZ? what a piece of junk!" because everyone knows it can't XYZ and doesn't expect it to. Three, a not-insignificant number of people crying gloom and doom about the F-35 have axes to grind. You get things like an article full of complaints about the F-35 that boil down to "it's not an F-16" written by the guy who designed the F-16. Granted, these people are experts and I'm not discounting them out of hand, but there's some very serious elements of things like "stealth? Pft, It Will Never Catch On".

Again, that's not to say that the F-35 program hasn't had some very real issues, or that we should ignore those issues. But the people calling the aircraft a failure are way overstating the case.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#112300: Feb 16th 2016 at 4:27:29 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] They actually decided to keep the A-10 thanks to the recent war with ISIS. Also, in fairness, I recall we still have the production lines open for several aircraft, like the F-18 supper hornet. Also they are making something called the F-15 Silent Eagle, which apparently has some stealth features. Still, the point stands, the vast majority of our airframes were made in the 80's during Reagan's buildup.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.

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