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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
This quote from Kickassia roughly explains the American understanding of equality.
"We will have a round table so that everyone will look each other in the eye as equals. And I will float above you in a rocket chair, so that I might look down and see just how equal we are!"
Republicans get antsy when they hear murmurs of taking away the rocket chair.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Wait, CNN wants Obama to nominate a Southerner to the court? That's their brilliant plan to sneak him past Republicans?
Wait what? Well never mind then, a blogger disagrees with her and thinks all the blame falls on the people who let homeowners take out loans they couldn't afford while assuming the price of real estate would keep rising forever, rather than the homeowners themselves who are clearly children that can never be held responsible for their actions. We better hang the bitch!
edited 15th Feb '16 8:15:30 AM by Nihlus1
Sometimes I wonder if people who cannot pay a house wholesale would be better off with renting it instead, financially speaking. Wasn't such homeowning debt a major trigger in the last crisis?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanGoing back to that mention of Srinivasan — as an Indian American, it would be really great if there were more high-profile Indian Americans in government that actually were representative of our demographic. I'd rather not have people think of Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley when we come to mind, and Srinivasan is a stellar candidate anyway.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."@Nihlus1: I am still having trouble pinning down your economic and political leanings. You claim not to be a radical conservative, but you've just trotted out one of the key canards of the right with respect to the housing crisis. Consumer behavior is driven by the availability of credit. The credit that fueled the housing bubble was enabled by shadow banking and direct, proven collusion between mortgage issuers and their underwriters.
If Joe Smith wants to apply for a loan that he can't afford, it's the bank's duty to turn him down. That's how our system works. The banks failed in that basic duty through intentional criminal malfeasance. It is difficult to find any interpretation of this that supports the idea that a primary, or even significant portion of the blame lies on consumers for believing in the reality that was laid out before them by marketers.
edited 15th Feb '16 8:33:18 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tactical approach to discussion. Having a reasonable understanding of someone's politics helps when forming conversational approaches. For instance, I wouldn't try to use a metaphor that frames the death penalty in a positive light when discussing a point with you, specifically, because I know from past experience that you're not a fan.
Speculation on part of the investors did not cause the bubble. The mortgages were viewed as very safe investments with a stable, mediocre return. The institutions that bought them were places like pension and mutual funds seeking a long term investment with a steady return. The speculators who caused the crisis were at the consumer level, who wanted in on all the real estate money despite (or perhaps because of) the economy and average living standards being higher than ever. Everyone who bought a house thinking it would go up in price was a speculator.
edited 15th Feb '16 9:23:49 AM by Nihlus1
@Septimus: As Aszur memed but didn't explain, the problem is that you gotta live somewhere, and rents in the US are way too high.
@Nihlus: Actually, no. I see where you're coming from on moral responsibility, but you're not seeing the whole story here. The homeowners bought homes they couldn't afford, but they weren't the ones driving the financial bubble. What drove the bubble was the side bets on the loans that turned the debt market into a casino - stuff like credit-default swaps being bought and sold by hedge funds, and everyone playing hot potato to avoid being stuck with junk debt. The ostensible irresponsibility of homeowners had nothing to do with that.
The Big Short (Michael Lewis' book, not the film) has more of the story.
edited 15th Feb '16 9:26:04 AM by Ramidel
It seems to me that if you face societal pressure to compartmentalize yourself into one married couple with two kids and a dog for each nice home as per the American Dream, and simultaneously are in an economy that isn't going to pay you enough to afford that dream, unsustainable loaning practices become inevitable. That gives us two levers to pull - so would we rather pay people more, or adjust our ideas of what a 'home' is supposed to be?
Or we could just berate people for not living within their means while simultaneously looking down on them for having non-standard living arrangements, in between wondering why they aren't spending more to stimulate the economy.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.I've said it before and I'll say it again: the primary investors were pension
and mutual funds.
Hedge funds generally takes more risks for higher return, and mortgages were viewed as a safe and steady instrument with poor to mediocre yield. I'm sure you can find some funds that did invest in the housing market, but those would've been more conservative funds seeking a safe investment, not speculative funds seeking growth.
The bubble happened because consumers thought prices would keep going up forever,
resulting in them being unable to pay their loans. All the talk about banks and hedge funds is blatant scapegoating.
edited 15th Feb '16 9:40:28 AM by Nihlus1
Sure. But the consumers were just as negligent and did more to create the bubble in the first place (by their sheer number if nothing else) by assuming the price of real estate would rise forever. Blaming everything on the banks just contributes to this country's collective delusion and will probably contribute to a similar crisis in the future.
I applaud Clinton for pointing this out- it would've been so easy for her to fall back on populist rhetoric rather than stating the truth.
edited 15th Feb '16 9:43:07 AM by Nihlus1
Consumers weren't the ones paying underwriters to approve knowingly fraudulent applications and firing the ones who objected.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Might sound like that sorta bullshit golden means crap I hate but...
How much is it to blame on both the banks and the people if
- a) The banks did not seem to do well enough of a checking on people's capacity to pay back
- b) Unexpected life stuff happened to people (You suddenly get fired, you are not going to have a nice time paying your home, there is also medical stuff which has higher priority than a home, and the U.S medical system is set to make people fail)
- c) big money interests can shirk from their payment through bullshit stuff (See: Trump)
I mean all in all, again sounding like an awful golden means fallacy person here, it seems like it may have been way too many things that would allow it to blame it solely on one thing
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

In India, there is a north south divide much like in the US. Most desi people that are well known in the US are from or descended from the north, even though there are as many people from down south doing just as well. About the only southern descended guy anyone knows in the US is Shyamalan and...he's a bit of an embarrassment...
So, speaking as a southern-descended American desi dude, I'd be happy to see one of us be a justice.
EDIT-
edited 15th Feb '16 7:22:57 AM by FFShinra