TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#111626: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:32:39 PM

This isn't the last we will see of Carson he is likely to end up as Trump's VP

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#111627: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:38:26 PM

Sorry, that's not how it works. You can't ignore a source just because you don't like what it says.

And you can't rely on one source to back up your claims. Try another.

I do have a source, in the form of Bernie's policy director backpedaling and revising his numbers after they're shown to be impossible. Unless you think Vox is just lying and quoting stuff that they never said, you have no argument. You're just trying to ignore the source because apparently figuring out 324 > 305 is so hard.

Are there any other source to back what Vox claims, or are they just parroting what Vox said?

I don't really care about convincing you. I care about making your stance look ignorant to other viewers.

Good luck with that.

It is also improper to ask loaded questions to distract from the fact that you have no argument.

You like free trade. Do you like the TPP? This isn't hard. I am asking a sincere question.

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#111628: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:39:32 PM

George W. Bush joining Jeb Bush in South Carolina.

Jeb's bringing out the big guns.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#111629: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:39:37 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, but that won't be for a while yet, and Trump still has to win.

[up]Is Dubya still popular in SC or something?

edited 10th Feb '16 2:40:51 PM by FFShinra

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#111630: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:45:40 PM

Hey, did someone here ask about the Nevada prediction polls? Here's the 538 prediction as of February 9

Those polls are mostly from 2015, and the only one from 2016 says Sanders shot up to 43% vs Hillary's 47%, so you should probably wait until a more current poll is published? I mean, trends matter, and there aren't enough polls in there to measure accurately.

(Edited last part to make it less dickish)

Edited again: link is too long, changed it to a shortened version. Here's the original in case you don't trust shortened links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Nevada

edited 10th Feb '16 3:05:54 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#111631: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:52:48 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Well, the idea of Carson replacing him would certainly be a potent way to discourage potential assassins.

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#111632: Feb 10th 2016 at 2:56:53 PM

Those polls are mostly from 2015, and the only one from 2016 says Sanders shot up to 43% vs Hillary's 47%, so you should probably wait until a more current poll is published?
I thought it was for February 2016?

And you can't rely on one source to back up your claims
Yes I can, when the source is just quoting someone on something. Try again.

Are there any other source to back what Vox claims, or are they just parroting what Vox said?
Of course they all parrot Vox, because this article was a conversation between a Vox writer and Gunnels. Or are you accusing them of outright making the whole exchange up?

You like free trade. Do you like the TPP? This isn't hard. I am asking a sincere question.
And I'm refusing to take your bait. Instead I'm going to continue asking why you deny Sanders backpedaled on his numbers when I just posted an article of his policy manager backpedaling on his numbers.

edited 10th Feb '16 2:57:08 PM by Nihlus1

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#111633: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:01:21 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Well, the idea of Carson replacing him would certainly be a potent way to discourage potential assassins.

Oh god that's...that's...that's...brilliant...

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#111634: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:02:15 PM

[up][up]Alright, how about I ask you what your stance on the TPP is? I'm sure you're aware that this forum, generally speaking, is hardly on board with it, but I'd like to hear from someone for whom trade agreements are a much more important issue.

edited 10th Feb '16 3:05:45 PM by Eschaton

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#111635: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:06:26 PM

Yes I can, when the source is just quoting someone on something. Try again.

Of course they all parrot Vox, because this article was a conversation between a Vox writer and Gunnels. Or are you accusing them of outright making the whole exchange up?

And I'm refusing to take your bait. Instead I'm going to continue asking why you deny Sanders backpedaled on his numbers when I just posted an article of his policy manager backpedaling on his numbers.

For the sake of the entire thread, please do not devolve into childish paraphraising.

With that out of the way, I shall answer all of these at once.

Sources can be unreliable. Why Vox, specifically? Why didn't Sanders' policy director talk to anyone else and why hasn't anyone vetted Vox's claim? It's what happens in the American media (and Russian media for that matter, we aren't much better) - someone says they got a citation, and everyone else doesn't bother to fact check. I need to know it's not just Vox and that their claims hold up to scrutiny.

Oh look, someone else asked you on TPP. If you find my question so distasteful, you can pretend you're answering them.

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#111636: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:10:22 PM

[up][up]I have not formed a complete opinion on it. The arguments I usually see made it against ("it'll let corporations sue nations" and "race to the bottom") are very weak and rely on taking things out of context, but that doesn't mean there's not a lot of problems with the agreement that I may not be aware of due to not studying it in as much detail as I probably should.

[up]

Sources can be unreliable. Why Vox, specifically? Why didn't Sanders' policy director talk to anyone else and why hasn't anyone vetted Vox's claim? It's what happens in the American media (and Russian media for that matter, we aren't much better) - someone says they got a citation, and everyone else doesn't bother to fact check. I need to know it's not just Vox and that their claims hold up to scrutiny.
If you think they outright fabricated the entire exchange, this is a rather serious accusation, and you need proof. Nothing I've seen disputes the idea that Sanders' campaign scaled down those numbers.

edited 10th Feb '16 3:14:56 PM by Nihlus1

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#111637: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:18:23 PM

Nihlus, I think it's less about claiming it was fabricated and more about having more than one source independently verifying the same thing.

If you quote one source and cannot provide another, it weakens the argument because it makes it seems like only one place is saying this thing.

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#111638: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:21:29 PM

If you think they outright fabricated the entire exchange, this is a rather serious accusation, and you need proof. Nothing I've seen disputes the idea that Sanders' campaign scaled down those numbers.

Positive statements need proof, not negative. You are the one who used the 99% economists claim when talking about free trade, the same thing can be applied here.

It is your accusation that every other economist who has analyzed the plan must have been on Sanders payroll, that is far unlikelier and needs mountains of proof. One economist with ties to Clintons saying something no other economist or even outlet has backed up since is far more suspiscious.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#111639: Feb 10th 2016 at 3:48:06 PM

If this is still about the TPP, there is a thread for it....

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#111640: Feb 10th 2016 at 4:21:54 PM

Rubio only has one more chance to prove himself. Christie may be gone, but Cruz is a noted good debater and Trump is Trump. So he won't drop until after SC, and that too only if he does badly (which, in my opinion, is likely).

I wonder if the damage to Rubio is being overstated. It's quite possible it's not, being made a laughing stock is hard to come back from for a politician, but even still, only about 3,000 votes separated Rubio in 5th place in NH from Cruz in 3rd, and they got the same number of delegates, and only 1 behind 2nd place Kasich. So while this is a blow for Rubio, I doubt it's going to sink his campaign entirely... as long as he doesn't blow his reaction to it. If he reacts well and gives people some good stuff to talk about, he'll be right back into the thick of it as a candidate for people who turned off by the hardcore rightness and unlikability of Cruz.

Although speaking of Cruz, he probably performed better than expected in NH. His core of support is among hardcore bible thumpers and the ultra right wing types who don't just want to chip away at government, but want to take a sledgehammer to everything even associated with government. Well NH tends towards libertarianism, it's generally a much more modest and mild brand than, say, the Oregon militia. That Cruz still did this well is a bit of an eyebrow raiser and confirms that he's probably going to be in this race until the very end. Whoever the last 2 or 3 candidates standing are, Cruz will be there.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#111641: Feb 10th 2016 at 4:50:35 PM

Rubio promised it would never again happen. Such an absolute statement from a politician begs to be proven wrong by someone like Trump or Cruz.

I have little faith the man can do it even if he hadn't made such a bold statement. All of his buzz was either after Iowa or just before the campaigning was hijacked by Trump. Rubio kept getting lost in the crowd. Crowd is now dwindled down, sure, but there are still enough larger than life personalities left that it's going to be an uphill battle.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#111642: Feb 10th 2016 at 5:07:26 PM

Yeah, he emailed me promising it wouldn't happen again. It does sound quite like tempting fate to me. I hope he can recover, though; he's the guy I want to vote for.

Leviticus 19:34
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#111643: Feb 10th 2016 at 5:29:11 PM

That reminds me, Kasich's email was the only one I got that didn't mention "conservative values" or "stopping Hillary".

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#111644: Feb 10th 2016 at 5:55:41 PM

Kasich knows its not possible to pass the Conservative acid test considering how he governs pragmatically, so he doesn't try (whatever his rhetoric might suggest). He instead campaigns on the platform of being competant and someone who could win the general.

[up][up]

Er...why? Guy's a bit of an empty suit, is he not?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#111645: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:00:34 PM

I think Kasich is going to get hammered in the Southern races. At this point, unless Rubio recovers in SC, Florida and Nevada, its probably going to be Trump or Cruz.

Gilmore only wins if everyone else dies.tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#111646: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:08:38 PM

Kasich might, but the people who don't like either Trump or Cruz still want a candidate, and if ain't Rubio, and it ain't Kasich, it seems Bush will live after all,...

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#111647: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:11:33 PM

And I'm sure he's just thrilled about it.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#111648: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:14:58 PM

I'm watching the news right now and it appears that Clinton and Sanders tied last night.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#111649: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:16:08 PM

No, they tied in states won. She won Iowa, he won NH. Therefore, it's a tie, 1-1.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#111650: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:42:43 PM

The Oregon militia thing is blowing up right now. Livestream on Youtube from the nutters still trapped inside, throwing out all kinds of wild conspiracy theories. Seems like they're spoiling for a fight.

This will likely be over by dawn.


Total posts: 417,856
Top