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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It should be noted, by the way, that the economic failures under Allende that Nihilus is using to try and justify Pinochet? At least in part the result of economic sanctions put in place by Nixon at Kissinger's recommendation.
Nixon and Kissinger helped kill the Chilean economy than used that to justify installing a dictator who killed thousands of his own people and tortured thousands more.
EDIT: Oh and under Pinochet, wages fell 8%, family allowances dropped to 28% of what they'd been under Allende, and budgets for health, housing and education fell 20%. By 1989, 44-45% of Chilean families lived below the poverty line, with what economic growth there was benefiting only the top 10% So the "Pinochet saved the economy" argument falls flat too.
@Jack
Under that same logic, the USA should have to pay damages to the families of Pinochet and Videla (and Suharto and the Pakistani Army's) victims. Which is not necessarily a bad idea, even if it will never happen.
edited 3rd Feb '16 3:29:11 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Morally, Jimmy Carter is probably the best US President, although I think Obama may be better on social issues if only due to different standards of the time and Fair for Its Day stuff.
So if any country experiences financial instability in the vein of stagflation or such, it is cool for someone to depose its government, impose a military junta, and shrug off the deaths of thousands, torture and rape of tens of thousands. Gotcha.
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
No kidding. Not to mention that, as I detailed above, Pinochet didn't even manage to "save" the economy. Under his regime, economic disparity widened, with the vast majority of what wealth was generated winding up in the hands of a few members of the upper class. That's not counting, of course, the millions of dollars in government money that somehow vanished into the coffers of various high-ranking officers, most notably Pinochet himself.
Did I say it was surprising? I'm just adding it to the list of things that need to be mentioned when discussing Pinochet's effect on Chile.
Not to mention that if certain people are going to talk about his economic policies as if they were a good thing, the fact that he stole millions of dollars from his own government is a worthwhile point.
edited 3rd Feb '16 3:41:47 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
@Kleptocracy obligatory? No, it isn't.
On topic? How about having the rest of the world represented as an extra State of sorts in both party primaries, presidential elections, and congressional elections? Not enough to be truly disruptive, but enough so that the world can have a say on who's going to be the most powerful man in it, given how the POTUS has the ability to irreparably fuck them up should he or she or they choose to.
edited 3rd Feb '16 3:46:53 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.I'm leaving this
here to help re-rail the conversation.
It's a comparison of Trump and Sanders merch. The Trump ballcap is made in China; the Bernie cap is made in the U.S.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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And do you buy that argument? Somehow I doubt it.
The moment people are willing to start justifying human rights violations in the name of economic growth, you are in a very bad place. I mean heck, that argument is how you slavery in the USA in the first place, as just one example.
edited 3rd Feb '16 3:47:51 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Here's something I found interesting.
Not many Muslims support Republicans, but those who do support Trump.
And in other news.
Clinton, Sanders agree to four more debates.
edited 3rd Feb '16 4:05:54 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.lol
Chamber of Commerce Lobbyist Tom Donohue: Clinton Will Support TPP After Election
edited 3rd Feb '16 4:15:21 PM by SolipsistOwl
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Considering the source, that is a classic example of a completely unbiased statement.
edited 3rd Feb '16 4:19:47 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Jimmy Carter is one of my top three favorite American presidents. I hope to see him at the DNC's convention later this year. (They barred him from attending in years past)