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FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#110676: Feb 2nd 2016 at 5:51:10 AM

  • Cruz

stupid colonial with a stupid name that isn't spelt the way it sounds...

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#110677: Feb 2nd 2016 at 5:51:14 AM

[up][up][up]

Clinton has a ridiculous lead among non-whites in national polls. It's not even close. There are certainly nonwhite voters in Bernie's coalition, but his bread-and-butter is college students and factory workers, both groups which are heavily majority white.

Regardless, the candidates’ support profiles indicate why Iowa and New Hampshire might not be the best places to gauge their strength nationally. Clinton leads Sanders by a broad 67-28 percent nationally among nonwhites, vs. a virtual dead heat among whites, 45-43 percent. Whites accounted for 93 percent of Democratic caucus participants in Iowa and 95 percent in the party’s New Hampshire primary in 2008, vs. 65 percent across all primaries in which exit polls were conducted that year.

edited 2nd Feb '16 5:53:19 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
LMage Since: May, 2011
#110678: Feb 2nd 2016 at 5:59:03 AM

ABC isn't exactly the most trustworthy source when it comes to Hillary. As I recall several of her backers have substantial power when it comes to ABC.

A lot of the fuss comes from the Black Lives Matter protest at his rally: but as the major media tends to ignore, he not only let them speak, he then invited their leadership to help shape his race-related policies and ideas.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:00:22 AM by LMage

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#110679: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:10:30 AM

The poll isn't actually made by ABC, but by Langer Research for them. You can read their methodology in the paper. If you don't like that, try YouGov, who show Clinton leading Bernie 76/22 among black voters in South Carolina.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110680: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:16:07 AM

It's a bit disingenuous to talk about polling bias just because the results don't agree with one's preconceptions. There is strong national evidence that minority voters favor Clinton over Sanders, and reaching out them has been a major goal of the latter's campaign. He's trying to sell them on the idea that economic inequality is at the heart of social injustice and that repairing it is the most important way to help them.

What Sanders is counting on is the mobilization of people who don't normally come to the primaries and/or skip the general election out of dissatisfaction with politics in general. In this he shares a certain similarity with Trump. From reports that the Iowa caucuses were running out of Democratic ballots, his idea seems to be substantiated. It's way too early to count him out.

My personal stance continues to be that I like Clinton as a reliable, safe bet while I also like Sanders for his ideas and drive. It's too close to call.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:20:09 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110681: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:40:23 AM

More than the Clinton name, Hillary seems to be riding Obamas name more than Bills for latinos, with her label of "his succesor".

I am also not quite sure if Bernie Sanders marketing strategies are the best for reaching latinos. At this point I would like to say I am not sure if Bernie Sanders marketing strategies WERE the best for reaching latinos, since if it is voting time, seems like that time is over.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110682: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:41:49 AM

There are a few months yet to go before all the caucuses finish up. There's time to fine tune the message.

It is rather ironic that Bernie Sanders, avowed democratic socialist, "man of the people", is attracting most of his support from white voters.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:42:22 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#110683: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:48:19 AM

I actually don't find it that ironic when you situate Sanders in the context of these political races. He's in the same niche that Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader, etc have been in.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:49:07 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110684: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:50:07 AM

[up][up]Not really. It is basically not easy to reach to minorities in some problems with ideas alone no matter how great they are. It is why populist and cult of personalities are easy on the rise for poor, uneducated nations. For example, and correct me if I am wrong, Bernie Sanders pretty much stuck to going to colleges and big ol fancy centers to do his speeches.

Compare and contrast with the local pastor of the Global Religion Evangelists who is right there in the community telling them what he thinks and they will eat that shit up.

Sure, I mean, you can wield the argument that it is their own job to get educated and informed but you underestimate just how much of an educational and experience thing it is to get people to do that. Or as said in 1995...

They say I got to learn but nobody's here to teach me

If they can't understand it, how can they reach me?

I guess they can't, I guess they won't

I guess they front that's why I know my life is outta luck, fool

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:50:41 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110685: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:50:19 AM

Minority voters have a (completely justified) concern about the idea that the system is rigged against them in more ways than just economically, and there is a historic sense of sympathy from the Clintons that has inspired a lot of brand loyalty.

There is also a sense that they have been told to "wait patiently for change" for long enough.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:02:29 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#110686: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:04:01 AM

Fighteer, you look back at The '50s as the height of democratic socialism in this country, don't you? How often did any of that 75% of the top bracket's income make it to minority communities?

Blacks have a bad history of being burned by America's attempts at socialism.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#110687: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:05:07 AM

Surprised more people haven't dropped out yet...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110688: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:07:43 AM

[up][up] Oh, I completely understand the situation. One reason that The '50s looked so bright on the surface was that they concealed an America that swept racial injustice under the rug. It was the Civil Rights movement that broke the back of that golden age by disrupting the Democratic consensus.

Which is not to say that it's not a worthwhile goal to seek racial equality, just that it keeps coming back to our nation's original sin of slavery. It is an issue that may divide us to the bitter end.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#110689: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:10:56 AM

Nice going, Iowa. I would have been happier if Trump had taken third, but you get bonus points for sending Huckabee packing.

And watching Hillary win by coin flips is almost as good as watching her lose. Nice touch, Iowa.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#110690: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:19:01 AM

Kids react to the major candidates. Of note, one said that Cruz is "crazy". Gotta say, kids are very perceptive.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#110691: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:21:00 AM

did the Fine Bros try and claim copyright on that video?

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110692: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:22:20 AM

Bernie Sanders DOES look angry...

Hell of a musician tho

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:23:32 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#110693: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:53:46 AM

It is rather ironic that Bernie Sanders, avowed democratic socialist, "man of the people", is attracting most of his support from white voters.
I think a lot of it is ultimately "Devil you know"-ism. Hillary is a known factor, Sanders is an oddball and a lot of people probably don't know who he is, but that's my guess.

Like I'm half wondering how many people in general are going "Wait, why is the mascot of KFCC running??"

Also of note, according to Vox, Sanders won the 17 to 44 bracket. Wonder how much Hillary won on Mediscare pandering. Hrm.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:03:12 AM by PotatoesRock

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#110694: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:03:43 AM

Sanders is an old white man, so he is slightly more privileged than Hillary's younger white woman. I really hope Sanders' run helps younger politicians to pursue a career using his "radical" ideas - which don't sound that radical, but hey.

I am convinced that, were he thirty years younger, he would either have burned out already or obliterated Clinton. I don't see much enthusiasm for Hillary (unlike Obama in '08), and Sanders looks like his age contradicts his opinions.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#110695: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:07:12 AM

[up][up]

It's more that black Americans are smart, practical voters who lean towards success rather than idealistic vision, especially as compared to white voters. Why this is is possibly an interesting topic for a sociologist - maybe because stakes are higher for black Americans, maybe because black America can still remember a time when it couldn't vote at all - the fact remains that Bernie hasn't done much for African-Americans given he represents Vermont, a state so white that if it were a sauce, it would be bechamel. He doesn't have the same recognition and trust from community institutions that Clinton has, and probably never will. Oh sure, he marched with MLK, but so did Mitch McConnell.

Ask anyone involved in Democratic politics about winning black votes in primaries, and they’ll tell you that it isn’t about hopes and dreams, though those are nice too. It’s about the nuts and bolts: the social networks, the key endorsers and officials, the neighborhood institutions, the systems that have been built up in the most trying circumstances to get people to the polls. Those kinds of factors are matter among every voting bloc, but they’re particularly important among African-Americans. You can’t blow into town a week before election day with a bunch of eager white 20-something volunteers from somewhere else and win their votes.

The big question being asked is: 'What have you done for me lately?' Sanders has trouble answering.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:09:08 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#110696: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:12:30 AM

Sanders is Jewish, mind, which puts him slightly askew with the "privilege" group.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#110697: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:14:19 AM

Of interest, O'Malley tied with Clinton and Sanders on the Minority vote in Iowa, but Iowa's minorities are again are kind of really small.

And that sounds like "Devil I Know-ism". Better the person you know will fuck you over somewhat rather than an unknown Rocky Balboa.

On the third mutant hand, again, apparently Hillary won on the backs of ages 45+ voters in Iowa, so to speak.

Which fits stuff you keep hearing that younger voters want more American progressivism.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#110698: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:17:47 AM

No way that Clinton and Sanders will run on the same ticket; its a non-starter because they are both way too old. And I can't see either one wanting to play second fiddle.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#110699: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:20:47 AM

Sanders is an old white man, so he is slightly more privileged than Hillary's younger white woman.
Nitpick, but Sanders is 74 and Clinton is 68. They're close enough in age that it basically makes no difference — and honestly, they're both approaching the age where getting older is becoming a liability in terms of social privilege, as the elderly are often automatically considered out of touch, out of date, and physically infirm. Expect to see attacks on both of them due to their age once the primaries are over, especially as the Republican field is generally younger. (Trump is 69 — but that will hardly keep him from attacking other people over their age — while Cruz is 45 and Rubio is 44.)

Not disagreeing that Sanders is the more privileged of the two in terms of social group they're part of, but just wanted to point that out.

[up]Honestly, if Clinton wins, then Sanders is better off in the Senate than he would be as VP anyway. If Sanders wins, I could see Clinton in a cabinet position again given that she doesn't have an elected seat to go back to. I'm not sure whether she'd accept, but I'm also not sure what she'd do if she didn't.

[down]Also true.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:28:04 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#110700: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:23:45 AM

To be honest, the discussion regarding whether or not Sanders is more privileged than Clinton illustrates the very limited use of privilege theory when it comes to discussing the extremes of the socio-economic and political spectrums.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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