TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#110451: Feb 1st 2016 at 4:47:56 PM

People want candidates who are committed to their positions for ever and ever, even if those positions are stupid and ignoring that a President needs to be flexible and able to adapt to situations as they arise. /sigh
I'm just tired of Neoliberal Democrats and their obsession of Grand Bargains and Entitlement Reform, i.e. Selling off the farm, when I have family members who really don't need their Social Security and Medicare being slashed and cut, and being sold off as piecemeal bargaining chips like Bill Clinton did with Welfare to the poor to sate Republican Red Meat, and Obama was willing to do.

Neoliberal Democrats do not have a good track record of protecting social safety nets if it means they can get traction on Social Issues.

And I don't trust Hillary to backstab on those positions and backpedal from her leftist positions if it means "Grand Bargain". [/says with sage voice] Because the Neoliberal end of the party, which she belongs to, have shown they will fuck Centrists/The Left on Social Safety Nets at the cost of Left Social Positions/Cult of Centrism.

edited 1st Feb '16 4:51:25 PM by PotatoesRock

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110452: Feb 1st 2016 at 4:51:32 PM

And that is a reasonable concern, the fact that you are capitalizing non-proper nouns aside.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#110453: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:01:39 PM

@Fighteer: Gonna note that holding Trump's bankruptcies as evidence that he's a poor businessman is somewhat misleading. Bankruptcy is a part of his business strategy - he wins either way, and the banks let him get away with it because in the meantime he's making them craploads of money off his successes.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110454: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:03:13 PM

He may be good at making money but if the success of the businesses he runs is supposed to be taken as an argument for his qualifications, it's a giant lie.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110455: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:06:18 PM

I'm not sure that the banks let him so much as can't stop him, his companies are presumably set up in such a way that them going bankrupt can't be held against him.

The question is if Trump's companies went bankrupt due to bad business desicions or because he's a cheat who misused bankruptcy loopholes to strip companies for parts befo running away and leaving the employees with nothing.

Vulture capitalist or incompetent idiot, pick your poison.

[up] True, Trump's record indicates that he would either drive the country to bankrupt though incompetence or though malice as he pockets the national budget and leaves everyone else on their own with no government support.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:08:10 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#110456: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:07:32 PM

One could argue that it is. Trump has shown that he can take big risks for big profits and recover smoothly if the risk blows up in his face. *turns into Old Republican business shill* In the business world, we call that leadership. I want someone in the White House who's not afraid to take risks if it means making our country great again.

And if he's a vulture capitalist, hey, maybe he can asset-strip Mexico to build that wall.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:08:16 PM by Ramidel

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#110457: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:09:07 PM

Thing is, when Joe Average has to declare bankruptcy and loses his house, he's regarded as a financial failure. When Trump does the same thing, he calls it a "shrewd business move." Plus, he declares bankruptcy so that he won't have to pay back the millions of dollars of other people's money that he pissed away on some monstrosity of a hotel/resort/casino that was an economic black hole from day one. What amazes me is that people are still willing to lend him money, again and again.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110458: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:10:23 PM

[up][up] You know I've never got the "make America great again" line, it seems to betray a fundemental lack of national pride, patriotism and belief in America in the speaker, I mean you're declaring that America isn't great currently, which is both factual incorrect in many ways but also not very patriotic.

Also you realise that asset stripping Mexico would require declaring a war right? I don't think even a a republican congress is that stupid.

[up] Did he piss the money away or pocket it?

edited 1st Feb '16 5:12:01 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110459: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:10:30 PM

[up][up]He is, as he claims often, supreme at making deals. That those deals are advantageous for him and awful for the other parties is, to him, all the proof he needs.

[up] It is fundamentally necessary to the Republican political mythos that America is constantly under attack, whether it be from Muslims, Communists, Liberals, Blacks, Women, Atheists, Chinese, Mexicans, or whatever. Trump takes that to its logical conclusion. He taps into the feeling among many whites that America has stopped offering them opportunity.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:13:23 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#110460: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:11:47 PM

[up][up]To the far Right America is always on the verge of collapse and takeover from China or Russia or whoever our designated bad guy is unless there's a Republican in office.

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110461: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:13:11 PM

So why do the far right hate America?

Even under threat a country can still be great, plenty of countries have been great when under threat.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#110462: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:13:33 PM

@ Pwiegle I've heard that speaking out about your experience being in business with Trump is a great way to get sued and more trouble than it's worth, so his shitty business practices remain an open secret among his peers.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:17:05 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#110463: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:13:45 PM

Thing is, when Joe Average has to declare bankruptcy and loses his house, he's regarded as a financial failure. When Trump does the same thing, he calls it a "shrewd business move."

And That's Terrible. Joe Average and Trump should both be willing to walk away from bad deals with the bank the moment they become bad deals. The bank considers you nothing more than an asset on their balance sheet and will fuck you every way they can, so for you to not be willing to take advantage of anything that will give you an advantage is foolish. It's a business deal.

(If you welch on a personal loan, of course, you are a horrible douchebag. But a banker is not personal.)

edited 1st Feb '16 5:14:04 PM by Ramidel

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110464: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:14:59 PM

This Dem precinct ran out of voter registration papers. Much bigger turnout than expected

https://twitter.com/woodruffbets/status/694319025589891072

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110465: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:16:47 PM

@Silasw: They don't hate America. They worship a nostalgic vision of America that has been dangled in front of them by their leaders and given memetic status. This vision is of a white, heterosexual couple with a detached home, a yard, a dog, two or three cars, a white picket fence, two children, baseball on the weekends, football on the TV, beers in the fridge for Dad, church on Sundays, vacations to Grandma's house, steaks on the grill in the summer, and the occasional colored servant. Dad works, Mom cooks and cleans, there might be a war on Over There but it doesn't touch anyone's daily lives. Dad probably has a rifle in his private den that he goes hunting with and teaches his son to use when he gets old enough.

That this vision only ever existed for a short while and in a very few parts of the country, that it has always masked racism and deep inequality, and that it's economically unsustainable is irrelevant. The right worships Leave it to Beaver.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:19:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Know-age Since: May, 2010
#110466: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:17:06 PM

If Trump is actually making money, then I'm fine with calling him a successful businessman even if he declares bankruptcy.

What I suspect, is that in actuality his only valuable skill is self branding and playing the media, no one even knows his net worth.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#110467: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:18:53 PM

So why do the far right hate America?
"It isn't the America of my nostalgia I grew up in anymore."

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#110468: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:20:00 PM

[up]So they hate it because it's alive and subject to change?

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#110469: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:21:13 PM

@Silas: Well only an idiot would argue the US is great right now. In fact Donald Trump himself is probably one of the reasons people think the country isn't great. The fact is that we as a country are in terminal inexorable decline ala the Roman or British empires. The only question is how long will we hold on and how painful will it be.

As for the dam song, let them have it. In a few decades both they, and the symbols of the revolution they so adore will be regarded as nothing more than an embarrassment. An uprising of stupid hicks fueled by money from greedy oligarchs for the purpose of keeping minorities and the poor oppressed, I'm talking about both "Tea Party" groups here. Some days I find myself pitying them rather than hating them.

[up] Because they fear it will change into something that isn't "America".

edited 1st Feb '16 5:22:43 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#110470: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:21:24 PM

Yes. That's pretty much the Republican argument. We need to roll back 'progress' right back to when things were 'really good'. The 1950s specifically seems to be around the point in time they'd like to freeze things. Except with no USSR threatening them.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:22:18 PM by PotatoesRock

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110471: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:22:45 PM

That's pretty much the Republican argument. We need to roll back 'progress' right back to when things were 'really good'. The 1950s specifically seems to be around the point in time they'd like to freeze things.
Which is deeply ironic because the 1950s were a time when socialist redistribution of wealth was at its peak in the country. That is most of the reason why we had such a strong (white) middle-class to begin with.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:23:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#110472: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:25:01 PM

I'd freeze things back in the Clinton years. The economy was doing good, we had a fucking surplus for christ's sake. No real foreign enemies to bother us, the nation triumphant and patriotic after beating the shit out of Saddam and watching the USSR crap it's pants. Hell our movies of the time. The fact that the biggest crisis that faced the nation was the President getting a BJ shows how good those times were.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:25:19 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#110473: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:26:05 PM

the fact that you are capitalizing non-proper nouns aside.

Okay, look. I have fairly strong reservations about linguistic prescriptivism in the context of cultural and political discourse, but the above quote is inconsistent with this:

whether it be from Muslims, Communists, Liberals, Blacks, Women, Atheists, Chinese, Mexicans, or whatever.

If you're using incorrect capitalization to illustrate the linguistic parameters of othering as a form of lexical bigotry and xenophobia, that's fine, but don't be a hypocrite about it. Just because you get to do it doesn't mean other people can't. Come on, now.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110474: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:28:30 PM

[up][up] Good for many, not for all. There was still deep racial inequality that periodically flared up (I recall some race riots during his tenure), the financial system was beginning to develop the shadow banking practices that lead to the crisis in 2006, the ratio of labor wages to productivity was still declining, gay rights were still a pipe dream, and climate change and healthcare legislation were being stonewalled by Congress. Let us not forget that his administration saw Newt Gingrich shut the Federal government down over the budget.

[up] It was not clear to me that his use of capitals in that context was intentional. If it was, I apologize.

edited 1st Feb '16 5:29:51 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#110475: Feb 1st 2016 at 5:29:21 PM

Sup Aprilla. Nice to see your posts again.


Total posts: 417,856
Top