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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I am more worried people in the U.S elected the son of a former president with a pitiable amount of experience in politics twice...
The accusations just look ridiculous from all sides, really. Barack's only achievement is being black. Bush's only achievement was being daddy's boy. McCain's only achievement was being a vet. Clinton's only achievement is being a woman/Bill's husband. Romney's was being rich. Al Gore was inventing the internet.
So yeah these sort of accusations just seem silly but to deny Hillary has experience in politics seems just silly.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesClinton may have rather skipped the steps that normally come between being a political ambitious congressional legal counsel and being a US senator, but do we really think she wouldn't have simply climbed the ladder the old fashioned way if she hadn't been able to skip the middle?
Also is it realy that unusual for a relatively unknown political actor to jump strait to the senate based a personal connection to a popular political figure?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe time to bring it up would have been when she was elected to the Senate. (And it was, as I recall, since the GOP establishment knew even then that Hillary was aiming for the top job.)
All this stuff is old news. And, frankly, raising it now only serves to make it even more blatantly obvious that it's an election year smear tactic, since she's been there and done that: dealt with the charges and accusations many times before. There's nobody left to be swayed by them who isn't already swayed.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Okay, going by just the senate seat that Hillary was elected to (out of the two in NY):
- 37 people have held the seat (including Mrs. Clinton and her successor)
- Of those 37, 4 senators did not hold elected office before they became a senator. Those three are:
- Robert F. Kennedy. He did live in NY off and on before being elected as a NY senator, but he did not hold elected office before he was elected a senator for NY. He was U.S. Attorney General and deep in his brother's administration, of course.
- James L. Buckley - he was from NY but hadn't held elected office previously. He was the older brother of famous conservative journalist William F. Buckley, Jr.
- Daniel Patrick Moynihan - he was from NY, but hadn't held elected office previously. He was previously Assistant Secretary of Labor, a Counselor to President Nixon for Urban Affairs, and Ambassador to India.
- Hillary.
So, with regard to the specific seat Hillary held, NY never elected someone who had just moved there as senator until Clinton, and of the four people (including Clinton) who hadn't held elected office prior to becoming a senator, three of them had ties to more famous close relatives.
That looks like pretty good support for my position.
edited 1st Feb '16 3:09:12 PM by Bense
Congratulations. You have discovered that high ranking positions are sometimes, if not often (if not always) related to the connections that person has.
We refer to this as "Discovering water is wet, and has, indeed, always been wet".
Does this delete the person's previous actual experience and knowledge, or the fact the job they got via a connection gave them surmountable experience? It doesn't.
I can likewise go into ridiculous guesses for Sanders' influence such as his brother, his relationship to the civil rights movement, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, and Howard Dean as the ones who got him his senate seat in the first place just cuz' those names appear in his wikipedia site and largely gives it credit for helping him achieve his Senatorial position
And the argument can be circular ad infinitum simply because I can just choose to beleive that without those people, sanders would not have been a senator because i am a badass motherfucker who can read the future and past and alternate timelines like that
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesLooks like a good argument for Hillary being the next Robert Kennady to me.
Yeah it's kinda sheezy that some politicians jump the line due to being connected to an existing politician, but as I've never got especially upset about it with other politicians and have no plans to do so in the future I'm not gonna get especially upset about it with Hillary.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranOh a by the by, if we're talking about people who got a quick jump into the big leauge based on personal connections it's worth noting that both Ted Cruz and Rand Paul went strait into the Senate (Paul obviously on the coattails of his dad and Cruz of the back of a lot of endorsements), Jeb also skipped local politics, going strait to being governor, Jeb obviously also got where he is based on his dad.
I think that's why it's hard to get particularly upset about Clinton having skipped local politics, we've got three republicans who did the same thing (two of them because of their dads) and another three who've never held elected office.
I guess score one for Sanders?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWe had a few Trump trolls show up, who promptly got cratered with the banhammer. We won't censor anyone's opinion as long as it's reasonably stated and free of overt rules violations, like bigotry and whatnot.
Trump's "business acumen" is rather overblown. Sure, he has a lot of money, but most of it is based around "selling himself", regardless of the actual success of the businesses he owns. He's had a number of notable bankruptcies, and once had to have several hundred million dollars of debt forgiven by a Saudi prince. His best skill is self-promotion. As a businessman, he is mediocre at best and an abject failure at worst, depending on whom you ask.
edited 1st Feb '16 3:57:58 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Easy, just argue the same way you would for Sanders (single-payer healthcare, anti-immigration, guest worker programs are the devil, upper income tax hikes, anti-free trade, nativism, moderate gun control laws, China's ruining everything, etc,) while dismissing his racist remarks as him trying to appeal to that demographic. Trumps' actual stances would be (incorrectly) cheered by many people if they came from anyone else.
edited 1st Feb '16 3:58:18 PM by Nihlus1
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I never said anything about being a businessman. I said he's very good at getting people to believe the bullshit he's selling and he's very good at getting his name out there. That much is true.
Look, if you're comfortable with Trump you either approve of what he says or are apathetic towards his views. Either one makes you an asshole.
edited 1st Feb '16 4:01:58 PM by Kostya
X3 Well yeah, Fascism does generally sound nice when you cut out the racist authoritarian bits, thing is they're rather the core of it.
You can't argue for the National Socialists based on the Socialists bit of the name, that's just dishonest.
edited 1st Feb '16 4:03:34 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranAnyone who can't tell Trump and Sanders apart is missing crucial logical analysis and critical thinking skills that it is probably way too late to teach.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

edited 1st Feb '16 2:01:23 PM by Bense