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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#110201: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:27:13 AM

I get the feeling Fox News or whatever is going to see it as "Illegal Kenyan Nazi-Communist Muslim President Plots Muslim Terrorism At Terrorist Building."

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#110202: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:31:15 AM

[up][up]Wow. You think he would've done that much earlier in his administration given how much he championed multiculturalism in America.

edited 30th Jan '16 10:31:40 AM by nervmeister

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#110203: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:37:21 AM

Wow, Obama's never done that before? Politicians in Canada go to mosques (and other houses of worship of almost any kind) all the time. Pretty sure it works like that in Europe as well. If nothing else its a great way for local politicians to connect with certain communities; as places of worship usually double as community centers/townhalls.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#110204: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:48:29 AM

The birther secret Muslim stuff early in his administration probably what prevented him. Now he doesn't care.

Kinda sad.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#110205: Jan 30th 2016 at 11:13:13 AM

Considering how the country has become so religious intolerant of Muslim anything a visit would probably destory any credibility he had, now people are just focused on the race but still fully expect the republican candidates to jump on it calling him a traitor and bash it like crazy.

edited 30th Jan '16 11:13:44 AM by Memers

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#110206: Jan 30th 2016 at 11:36:13 AM

That might be what makes this an opportune time. The Republicans will jump on it no matter what, but now they've painted themselves as so anti-Muslim to the point only those who are as rabid as they are will take it more seriously than "racist Republican."

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#110207: Jan 30th 2016 at 12:51:49 PM

Obama: A genius who's managed to create an ideology combining the tenets of Communism, Islam, Fascism, and Liberalism.

Leviticus 19:34
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110208: Jan 30th 2016 at 1:26:54 PM

Unfortunately, the Obama administration hasn't been much better than the Bush administration in regards to Muslims and Muslim-Americans. He and the Democrats have received a lot of criticism for continuing the same policies.

The last time Obama met with Muslims, he insulted them during Ramadan.

http://www.alternet.org/world/obama-humiliates-muslim-white-house-guests-endorsing-israels-gaza-assault-defending-nsa

Both Bush and Gore actually held *three* meetings each with Muslim-American organizations while campaigning in 2000—Bush ended up winning the election with 72% of the Muslim vote.

I imagine Obama fared worse due to the "birther" stigma. He has a lot of time to make up for.

edited 30th Jan '16 1:31:39 PM by SolipsistOwl

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#110209: Jan 30th 2016 at 1:47:21 PM

Yeah, the right-wing noise machine became more relentless after Obama's ascension, and as we can see from Clinton's emails, there was a decent amount of concern in the administration for not creating things that the noise machine would turn into scandals, as long as the thing in question was low-salience.

Now, it's definitely interesting that Muslims favored Bush in 2000, pre-9/11 hawkish US politicians were probably favored by the non-radical Muslim community because of the success of the First Gulf War and because of our intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo to help stop genocide of Muslims. Interesting how quickly that can turn around or evaporate.

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#110210: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:09:52 PM

I'm not sure of the divide on economic reform, but the point should be that Sanders isn't just pulling his economic theories out of nowhere, as implied here and elsewhere. There are experts that support him.
No, he's totally pulling them out of his ass. The economists who support him are, to paraphrase Ach, English professors, trade unionists (OH JEEZ, HOW UNEXPECTED!), several professors of industrial relations (i.e. labor standards), and several other questionable figures. So it's kinda like saying that a certain type of medicine is a good idea because a geologist said so. Or, actually, like saying "Well hundreds of scientists (most of whom are entomologists) agree that global warming is a lie, so it's just a question on which group of experts you prefer to trust".

His platform is explicitly, at its very base, anti-free trade.Economists have been trying to explain for years why this is stupid, it's been explained literally thousands of times and is agreed on by almost every economist. Yet nativist populists still get votes. It's amazing.

Speaking of which: fortunately, Sanders' minimum wage plan would have to go through Congress first. So it probably would never get passed anyway even if he won the election. Same for a lot of his dumb ideas, and his handful of good ideas. His nativist protectionist ideas, on the other hand...? He can totally force those into practice. He could cancel several agreements and cause untold damage with just his presidential powers.

Obama: A genius who's managed to create an ideology combining the tenets of Communism, Islam, Fascism, and Liberalism.
America is under attack by the Commie-Nazis.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:15:33 PM by Nihlus1

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110211: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:15:59 PM

I wonder if this is a "give them the rope by which to hang themselves" move on Obama's part, Fox and Co are now going to unleash a wave of bigotry aimed at Muslims and thus help ensure that Muslim-Americans vote Democrat come the election.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#110212: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:18:39 PM

I doubt any Muslims that aren't hardcore Republicans are going to vote for any of their candidates.

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110213: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:20:01 PM

[up][up][up]The President has the power to raise the minimum wage of all federal workers and federally-contracted workers through executive action. Simply doing this would demonstrate the consequences of the wage hike and set the standard for the free market.

So, yes—Sanders certainly can raise the wage.

Besides, $15/hr is only a bargaining chip. Sanders knows enough to demand high and compromise with $12/hr than Clinton, who apparently doesn't realize that demanding $12/hr from the start will get a $9/hr compromise with Congress. How does that make her the better negotiator?

On Congress & legislation:

The Sanders campaign has stated that they intend to make 2017-'18 the "largest referendum in U.S. history" by mobilizing voters into down-ballot polls. If Obama could get a supermajority to pass the ACA, why can't Sanders do the same to get Congress back following the midterms?

Finally—

Sanders can vow to pull out of NAFTA if it's not reformed within six months—(Article 2205)

edited 30th Jan '16 2:23:33 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110214: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:26:29 PM

[up] Because Obama was a lot more broad church then Sanders is, because things weren't as heavily gerrymandered back then, because Obama's majority was built up over years of an unpopular Republican president.

You're not gonna get a repeat of 2006 as long as there's a Dem in the White House, and we can't sacrifice a Dem in the White House for that.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110215: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:29:55 PM

[up]Funny how one of the main points of Obama's final SOTU address was his intention to travel the nation to fight for voters' rights, and against gerrymanderying (cited specifically).

The DNC, ACLU, and other civil rights organizations have already filed numerous lawsuits against discriminatory voting policies in several Republican-held states. There were a lot of protests about it last year.

I don't believe Sanders could win back a supermajority, but it's not beyond doubt that he could gain seats just as well (or better) than any other Democrat in an open midterm. There's little holding a hypothetical President Sanders from accomplishing some of his intentions within the confines of the first two years of a first term, then within the freedom of the second two years.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:31:27 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110216: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:34:32 PM

I don't see any Dem gaining seats in a midterm, when was the last time the party holding the White House gained seats in a midterm?

Now Senate gains thsi year I think Sanders could manage, but enough House gains for a majority? I don't see it.

And Obama can try as much as he likes to fight gerrymandering and and voter suppression, but it's not on him to win that fight, that fight is gonna be won in the courts.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:35:53 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110218: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:39:00 PM

Is a word.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110219: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:40:50 PM

Sanders' theory of political change is that if you simply mobilize enough voters, you can enact... political change. It's not a difficult concept.

If Sanders were elected President and faced a Congress that refused to pass legislation, he would mobilize voters to demand the removal of those congresspersons through referendum. He would essentially purge Congress through statewide, massive recalls.

That's not a difficult thing to do if you can inspire people to run in down-ballot primaries against the incumbent. President Sanders would then endorse.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:44:33 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110220: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:44:33 PM

That would require Sanders to have enough voters in those Congress people's districts, which is highly unlikely to happen.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110221: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:45:45 PM

Hey, it's his theory of political change. I buy into it.

If Sanders wins Iowa, then New Hampshire, then the nomination... maybe that means other people buy into it as well?

That's kind of what primaries are for: to tell the parties what the constituents want in their candidate.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:46:20 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110222: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:52:05 PM

It'll mean that the majority of Democrat primary voters believe in in in those states, but that's a far cry from the majority of all voters believing in it in safe red seats.

Do you get district by district numbers for primaries? Or are they done state by state? I can't remember.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110223: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:54:53 PM

That's why Sanders has been heavily campaigning in the South and running television ads there. He's had a campaign office in Texas since last year.

He intends to get Republicans and independents to vote alongside Democrats.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:56:15 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#110224: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:57:32 PM

If he manages it I will cheer, but it's a tough hurdle to jump.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110225: Jan 30th 2016 at 3:01:21 PM

The poll had several striking findings. The 74-year-old Sanders is drawing young voters. The supposedly far-left Sanders runs ahead of Clinton among independent voters, who can participate in Iowa’s caucuses and vote in New Hampshire. And Sanders does better than Clinton in head-on-head matchups with prospective Republican nominees.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2016/01/11/the-democrats-deja-vu-for-hillary-clinton-shes-losing-younger-voters-in-iowa-caucuses/

Isn't candidate 'electability' heavily defined by crossover support? You want to be able to get some votes from the other candidate in the general election—you want to *grow* your party.

Sanders consistently pulls 25% of the Republican vote in home-state of Vermont.

edited 30th Jan '16 3:05:29 PM by SolipsistOwl


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