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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110051: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:19:49 PM

I'm not going to discuss the merits of that argument because I don't know the contents of the emails.

However, if you get a document on your desk or in your email that has no classification stamp on it, you can operate under the reasonable assumption that it is not classified. Logic. One can assert that it should have been, but that is an ex post facto argument that is inadmissible in a hypothetical criminal proceeding.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:21:39 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110052: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:21:48 PM

[up]Why would Clinton, then Secretary of State, assume any E-mail she would receive would not have some level of classification? That is not an assumption for her to make, nor an argument against her culpability.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:22:36 PM by SolipsistOwl

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110053: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:22:28 PM

Um, no. What does that have to do with anything? Is it her responsibility to check the classification status of each email she receives on her private server before receiving it? That makes no sense.

The point of the investigation is that Clinton, knowingly or accidentally, used her private server to send or receive classified information in violation of Federal law. If the emails on her server were not classified when she sent or received them, then there was no violation of the law. Q.E.D.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:23:33 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110054: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:23:39 PM

She was Secretary of State. She shouldn't have had a private server to begin with, because her job—by definition—is classified.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110055: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:24:08 PM

False. Blatantly false, in fact.

Well, maybe you're using "should" in the "ethics as I personally define it" sense rather than a legal sense, in which case, whatever floats your boat.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:26:01 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#110056: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:25:30 PM

It is the case that she should have been doing State Department work through a government e-mail server, not some private server in somebody's bathroom.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110057: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:26:39 PM

Using private email servers was standard practice at State due to the antiquated nature of their official systems. Are we really going to go over this again? There's no meat on those bones; it's all a witch hunt by Congress in an attempt to tarnish Clinton's campaign. It won't work, guys.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:27:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110058: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:27:50 PM

[up]Why did Clinton scold another State employee for using a private account, while feigning ignorance over her own use?

http://gawker.com/hillary-clinton-sent-private-email-expressing-surprise-1751826261

edited 29th Jan '16 2:29:30 PM by SolipsistOwl

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110059: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:29:37 PM

I guess the contents of the emails might reveal that and if they are being investigated by the FBI they will soon enough determine if there is, or not, an abuse then, right?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110060: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:30:20 PM

[up][up] Who cares? It's political white noise. Let it go.

Edit: Clinton could fart at a political event and the GOP would turn it into a year-long Congressional investigation.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:32:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110061: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:32:29 PM

[up]Unethical and illegal behavior from a public servant is not "white noise."

I agree that 'Emailgate' is largely a media circus, but it's not as if Clinton shouldn't be investigated for her various connections and crimes. Emailgate may lead to such revelations.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110062: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:33:10 PM

"Her various connections and crimes". /sigh

If you investigated me as much as the GOP has investigated Clinton, you'd turn up some theoretically criminal offense I committed as a teenager.

It's a neverending fountain of stupid, this. Let it go.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:34:45 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110063: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:34:19 PM

President Clinton deregulated the banking industry and Wall Street.

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, post-presidency, have received over $150 MILLION from speaking fees to Goldman Sachs and other organizations connected to the 2008 banking crash. That's corruption.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:35:10 PM by SolipsistOwl

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110064: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:34:34 PM

Such revelations are silly to guess though, better wait until the FBI pronounces itself on it.

Before it though, I am more inclined to believing Clinton did not know or even care because seriously man. I work at an IT company and even the higher ranks here seldom know where shit is, and I have seen it in other governments and companies. Its basic administrative bureocracy misplaced crap that is to be expected anywhere.

[up] That is actually pretty standard money for consultants and stuff overtime, specially from figures of renown, and particularly if that has been spread over by 10 years. Yes, it is a ridiculous amount, but it is not for the singular case of the Clintons.

What, you think they give speeches for free? You can cash in a sweet life after being president of the U.S just for renown alone even if you did squat.

Would be more suspicious if they DID do those speeches for free...

edited 29th Jan '16 2:37:40 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110065: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:35:29 PM

[up][up] Possibly as Bernie Sanders defines it, but in Washington, that's called "business". Not liking it is not the same thing as it being criminal corruption.

Trying to suborn democracy with an unfounded, politically motivated witch hunt is corruption.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:36:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110066: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:35:51 PM

[up][up]Clinton should still own it rather than pretending she did no wrong, and demonizing Snowden and other whistleblowers.

[up]Okay. So you just accept corruption.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:36:30 PM by SolipsistOwl

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#110067: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:38:05 PM

Look, I'm as happy as the next Democrat to lament the money-worship and hypocrisy inherent to our political system, but singling out Hillary Clinton over it is sour grapes. It's an attempt to preemptively poison her political campaign when you can't have a substantive debate over the issues.

No other candidate has received this kind of scrutiny, and it's truly amazing how little misbehavior has turned up after all of it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110068: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:39:30 PM

Clinton is running for president. Why shouldn't we scrutinize her?

And it's not as if journalists haven't also been covering Sanders, O'Malley, Trump, and the Republican candidates, and their sources of funding.

I'm more than happy to allow Clinton to lose the nomination and fade into obscurity, but until that happens she should be scrutinized.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#110069: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:44:36 PM

But it's getting to the point where scrutiny has become a stick to make someone potentially lose the nomination.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#110070: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:45:00 PM

Seriously though dude. Speakers make ridiculous amounts of money. The Clinton-Sachs connection is dubious. Just look at the ridiculous charges someone like Magic Johnson can charge you just for showing up to say something obvious

See http://www.keyspeakers.com/ or http://www.prosportspeaker.com/.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:45:24 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#110071: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:45:44 PM

Yeah. While the email thing makes me iffy on principle, I've come to realize that what Clinton did was, at worst, common practice at the time, if not now. As I said last time this came up: while "everyone does it" is no excuse, the fact of it is that, to me at least, it doesn't make Clinton look like a worse choice then the relevant Republicans.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:46:07 PM by sgamer82

SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110072: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:46:32 PM

[up][up][up]If a candidate can't stand up to scrutiny, maybe they should let someone else run who has better favorability and less to scrutinize.

[up][up]It's not that Clinton did the speeches, but that she refuses to release even transcripts. What did she say?

edited 29th Jan '16 2:47:21 PM by SolipsistOwl

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#110073: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:46:39 PM

But nobody else is under scrutiny. Where are the Republican lawmakers getting grilled for using private email servers? Hell where are the other high ranking officials besides Clinton?

If this level of suspicion was being applied to everyone in the White House and the Capitol Building then I'd be fine but it's only about Clinton.

This is just a political witch hunt. Republicans have admitted so themselves.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:47:58 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#110074: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:48:12 PM

[up]None of the Republican candidates were Secretary of State? None of them bungled their position so badly to merit an investigation?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#110075: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:48:47 PM

Neither did Clinton. I can guarantee you if anyone else was Secretary of State this wouldn't be happening.

Oh really when?

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