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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109676: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:37:36 PM

I didn't list Kasich, Pataki, Paul, or Graham because I ran out of energy, although Kasich does stand a chance of coming in second in New Hampshire and has picked up a major endorsement.

@Protagonist: If you support Rubio's platform, have you really looked at it? Because it's straight-ticket Tea Party.

edited 26th Jan '16 8:38:40 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#109677: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:38:16 PM

I know that Ron Paul has quite a huge following. What exactly is he known for, though?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109678: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:41:57 PM

@ Ron Paul: Being a Libertarian. Auditing the Fed. Returning us to the Gold Standard. States rights. Having a fake doctorate (along with his son)

Wait, I thought Kaisch was homophobic or said some weird stuff about abortion or something?
The entire Republican bench is Homophobic and anti-Abortion.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109679: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:42:01 PM

@Adric: Let's be clear — there are two Pauls in politics, father and son. Ron Paul is the elder of the family and has been a staunch Libertarian (in the classical sense of the term) for his entire political career. He has run for President on both the Libertarian and Republican tickets, though never came close to securing a GOP nomination.

Rand Paul, his son, is a Senator from Kentucky and is a current Republican Presidential candidate. He's got all the personal charm of a turnip and is admittedly in government only because he wants to use his power to tear it down. He's something of a misanthrope on the campaign trail and can't even pretend to be enjoying it, which has undoubtedly contributed to his fall in the polls. His Libertarianism is a bit muddled with Objectivism (Ayn Rand's infamous creed).

There are two Paul platform positions that are laudable for most Democrats: their opposition to the War on Drugs and to the war in Iraq and military interventionism in general. However, their economic position is risible — as noted above, they want to remove the independence of the Federal Reserve Bank and return the United States to the gold standard. The elder Paul worships at the altar of Ludwig von Mises.

edited 26th Jan '16 8:45:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#109680: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:42:39 PM

Pataki and Graham dropped out. Short version of Rand Paul (Ron's son): he was named after objectivist writer Ayn Rand, and that tells you more or less everything you need to know. Strong following amongst smug know-it-all college students who think that they know everything after a course of Poli-Sci, little to no following elsewhere.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#109681: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:44:06 PM

Didn't he do a filibuster that ended the Patriot Act or something?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#109682: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:44:35 PM

[nja]The Paul in this election in Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son. Their claim to fame is their libertarian bent (if you couldn't guess from the name), with Rand particularly differing from the other Republican candidates in being less interventionist.

Ron Paul, somehow, was also the prior meme-candidate (RON PAUL 2012), though obviously that has since been overturned.

edited 26th Jan '16 8:45:48 PM by Eschaton

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109683: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:45:30 PM

And before you ask, the Fed is supposed to be able to control Monetary policy of interest rates without technical pressure or control from Congress/The Presidency as to avoid wrecking the economy in the face of naked populism.

The Gold Standard would basically crash the U.S. economy as we're based on Fiat Currency (the trust of money rather than the agreed value of a commodity).

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#109684: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:48:36 PM

Update on the Oregon thing.

WSJ is reporting that they were traveling to some town hall meeting when FBI agents stopped their car. One of the occupants pulled out a weapon and the FBI opened fire.

I'm baaaaaaack
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#109685: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:50:37 PM

I could've sworn I'd read somewhere in the news that Rand Paul delivered a filibuster that helped to end the Patriot Act or something (I forget).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109686: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:51:32 PM

Yes, Rand Paul was/is staunchly opposed to the sacrifice of freedoms that are parcel of the War on Terror, one of his few laudable political attributes. In this he had more courage than many Democrats.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#109687: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:52:23 PM

Huh. Sometimes the people on the opposite side have a couple good ideas going on, it seems.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109688: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:53:12 PM

Didn't kill the Patriot Act but it did lead to several major provisions not being renewed, but yes.

He's one of those mixed bags, he has some decent positions but it comes with a bag full of crazy.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#109689: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:54:29 PM

Rumor is that the person shot was LaVoy Finicum.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#109690: Jan 26th 2016 at 8:56:09 PM

@Fighteer: I should probably do more research, but from what I can tell so far me and Rubio seem to have very similar politics. According to an I Side With test, we agree on about 91% of issues.

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#109691: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:05:36 PM

Looks like federal agents have surrounded or even retaken the refuge.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oregon-standoff-ammon-bundy-1.3421438

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109692: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:07:10 PM

Yay, so that embarrassing chapter in our history is nearly over, looks like. Good riddance, I hope they rot in prison. Some occupation: it lasted less than a month and accomplished absolutely zilch except to briefly increase the revenue of mail-order sex toy companies.

edited 26th Jan '16 9:08:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#109693: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:08:19 PM

How is Clinton more 'pro-immigration' then Sanders, when she was the one most vocally calling for the recent deportations?

2014:

In response to a little-noticed question during a July 2014 CNN town hall, Clinton said that thousands of children who had made it across the border “should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are.” She concluded: “We have to send a clear message: Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn’t mean the child gets to stay. So we don’t want to send a message that is contrary to our laws, or will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey.”

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/28/hillary-clinton-now-says-she-has-concerns-about-deporting-migrant-children/

2015:

"Specifically with respect to children on the border, if you remember, we had an emergency, and it was very important to send a message to families in Central America: Do not let your children take this very dangerous journey," Clinton said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-child-migrants_us_55d4a5c5e4b055a6dab24c2f

edited 26th Jan '16 9:16:30 PM by SolipsistOwl

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#109694: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:10:58 PM

That's still just the arrest of those in the car, and a few supporters that I posted about earlier. No word on any still at the refuge itself, though I imagine something's going to be done about them soon.

I'm baaaaaaack
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#109695: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:12:50 PM

From the CBC article I posted: Ammon Bundy's group, which has included people from as far away as Arizona and Michigan, seized the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge on Jan. 2 as part of a long-running dispute over public lands in the West. Law enforcement officers converged on the wildlife refuge after the arrests and were expected to remain at the site throughout the night; it was unclear how many people, if any, remained in the buildings.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109696: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:12:56 PM

[up][up]The news report has the place surrounded by cops. Whether they will storm it or besiege the remaining militants is not yet known.

[up][nja]

Edit: @Solipsist Owl: You do realize that it is illegal to enter the U.S. without a visa, right? We still have laws, and until Congress acts, not enforcing them is something that is very problematic, Constitutionally speaking.

edited 26th Jan '16 9:15:11 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#109697: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:14:45 PM

Fighter I'd disagree with being anti-interventionist as laudable, as would the people of Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo and East Timor (likely also the people of Libya, but I've had that argument once in class today as is).

Isolationism does the world no good, abandoning people to suffer in messes the US helped create is frankly irresponsible.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109698: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:16:53 PM

[up] I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with a complete non-interventionist foreign policy, especially given our role in creating those messes to begin with. But the United States most definitely lacks the political will to carry through such interventions to their logical conclusions, which may go as far as a full occupation and reconstruction of the offending nations.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SolipsistOwl Since: Jan, 2016
#109699: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:18:50 PM

[up][up][up] @Fighteer: My point is that it's disingenuous for Nihlus1 to continually push a narrative of racism towards Sanders, while shilling for Clinton.

Call Sanders "anti-immigrant" if you want, but the record clearly shows that Clinton is not in any regard "better."

edited 26th Jan '16 9:19:17 PM by SolipsistOwl

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#109700: Jan 26th 2016 at 9:18:52 PM

You're still in Kosovo, it can be done, though starting with big Arab World messes that require lots of security creation before the state building probably wouldn't be the best idea.

[up] I doubt you need to convince Fighter of all people that Nihilus is being disingenuous. tongue

edited 26th Jan '16 9:19:49 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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