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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Besides making more than they'd be doing in their home countries is no indicative of a decent living, the are less miserable than they'd be but it in no means they are living decent lives.
The minimum wage in metropolitan areas, the one the majority of the people live in, plain sucks to support a single person, even less an entire family.
Inter arma enim silent legesOh they will do things, they just wont work.
If things worked and happened because you said they would, then just saying I am going to lose weight would be a magical and amazing way for me to lose weight but it's not going to happen just because I say it will now, will it. Or like saying "I am going to drop burgers from my diet to drop weight" (And I DO drop burgers, just not fries or any other greasy food, and make no exercise) so even if I drop the burgers I am still not going to lose weight.
Same thing applies to Trump. He sayid he'd build a wall and that the wall would stop illegal immigration. I have no doubt in my mind Trump would actually build that wall, and I have no doubt in my mind that the wall would also not stop illegal immigration.
Same as Sanders. He said he'd do all those things but none of those would stop immigration.
Which is vastly different from accusing me of saying "You say presidents will do things but then that they wont". They will do things. They just wont work.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes@Silasw: There would be more people per house, though not by a whole lot. The average household size in Mexico is 3.9 people, to the US average of 2.6; the average for illegal immigrants should be smaller considering they're richer than Mexicans (also, 59% of all undocumented immigrants are from Mexico; the rest are mostly from Central America). But you know, even assuming dual-earners, it's still way above minimum wage. I don't think this is at all unreasonable when you remember they're on average very poorly educated (less than half have a high school education or better) and many are probably not even fluent in English.
Ask yourself if $41,500 ($36,000 is for 2007, 8 years of inflation happened) after taxes (which is, I dunno, $56,000 before taxes?) is enough to comfortably sustain 3 or 4 people in a country with costs of living lower than yours. Then remember that most Mexican/Central American immigrants (36k is just for illegals) would make more than that.
For what it's worth, reputable organizations like the Institution on Taxation and Economic Policy don't assume the the average immigrant household is that much bigger than the national average when doing their calculations. So it's probably not too far off.
Sanders doesn't care about ending exploitation, he'd rather bar them from entering the country at all to live in places with objectively worse QOL. Clinton is the one who wants more and easier immigration.
They can't end immigration, but they CAN reduce it. And they definitely can wreck US trade policy with protectionism. That's within the power of the president.
edited 26th Jan '16 6:41:53 PM by Nihlus1
Given my (admittedly very incomplete) understanding of the situation of many European countries at the moment I'm not sure what the point holding your nose up (or at least as high as you used to be able to) at the US is. Even if I do agree that the things mentioned are important.
edited 26th Jan '16 6:19:32 PM by LSBK
I agree that Sanders wants to bar them but I think that's because he believes (perhaps wrongly as you've been arguing) that they're being exploited. Let's face it that's a commone belief here (you certainly here about exploited Mexican fruit pickets often enough) and dollars to donuts many of us are better informed then some politicians.
As for Euopre, we're generally ahead socially, but economically we're being pretty stupid.
edited 26th Jan '16 6:20:03 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYes. They can reduce it. But not by any of the measures so far mentioned by any of the politicans with the tiny exception of one that might help a bit.
Also, is it true? They areested Yall Qaeda apparently. Boo. They were funny.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesBundy and several of the other wackjobs in Oregon have been arrested; shots have apparently been fired as well. No reports of injuries/fatalities yet.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-siege-arrests/index.html
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Depends what you mean by anti immigrant. All of the Dems support legal immigration, along with most of the Republicans, though the extent and enthusiasm of this support varies from candidate to candidate, with the Dems being far more accepting than the GOP.
edited 26th Jan '16 6:57:08 PM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Sanders doesn't. He thinks immigrants are taking American jobs. He has made this clear; his logic is that immigration is bad because the US doesn't have enough jobs to go around. This is also why he opposes H-1B visas and guest worker programs, and supports suspension of free trade agreements and the implementation of tariffs. Sanders doesn't want foreigners involved because he thinks they're taking a piece of a limited pie. Once you remember that he's running under the assumption of the lump of labor fallacy, everything he says is "logical".
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That'd be Clinton.
edited 26th Jan '16 7:04:55 PM by Nihlus1
I haven't been paying too much attention to the US elections because... well, I don't live there nor intend to ever live there in the future, and at the moment I'm more worried about how my own country can sustain itself, and even then I don't know as much as I think I should.
I'd like to know, however, who are the candidates running for office. You could describe them if you want to (as in, you don't think I'm lazy or something for asking this here, which I'd disagree with but w/e), but if you do I'd like to know which ones you agree the most and which ones you disagree the most, because as I understand it there'll always be bias, even unconsciously.
Additionally, as far as I'm aware, both parties at the US are right-winged, is that correct? I mean, when the Liberals are the most agreeable people around, you've got me worried. If anything, I guess I'd find them more right-winged than some of the Brazilian parties, due to our different histories, but, eh, I guess I shouldn't just briefly mention another country's politics here if I'm not going in-depth on it.
@Hallow Hawk: Maybe try Canada instead?
That's my current plan XD
It's not clear if anyone is still at the occupied building.
edited 26th Jan '16 7:24:28 PM by Mio

They do have to pay taxes, plus Median is calculated after taxes. Plus it being better then their home countries doesn't make it not exploitative, if they're being paid less then minute wage they're being exploited.
Also the numbers are per household income, are such households not normal bigger then their American born equivalent? Thus the income is being generated by more people, in support of more people, yet it is lower.
edited 26th Jan '16 5:28:26 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran