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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Juan Perón? I really don't think that the politics of the United States and of Argentina are directly comparable; we haven't had a military coup to overthrow a liberal President yet, for one thing. And I don't think Sanders has in mind suspending the Constitutional separation of powers in order to get his policy ideas enacted.
By all means, continue down that particular line of poisoning the well if you like. We'll Pass the Popcorn.
edited 26th Jan '16 1:41:38 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Some guy with a Trump avatar and Trump related handle appeared to say stupid shit.
Anyways, yes, Clinton did support Goldwater, again, when she was 16 years old
. Whereas Trump went to a private school, was kicked by behavior problems, was sent to military school, and then didnt get anything more than a bach degree in a business school related to the University of Pennsylvania.
Compare to Clinton, with a JD in Law from Yale.
Speaking of Trump, arent his wives immigrants? Guess that proves immigrants do the jobs no other person in the U.S cares for
edited 26th Jan '16 1:43:13 PM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesFor what it's worth, I'm pretty solidly pro-Clinton (compared to Sanders). Although he has said a lot of things that make me more sympathetic to him,I'm really uneasy about his "shtick" (generally cited in defense of his gun control record) to the effect of being able to win over racist white voters (he doesn't express it this way but it's clearly what he means).
Because either he thinks he can "trick" them into voting for him because of shared ground on economic issues, but doesn't plan to pander to them if elected; or else, he's not going to be good about civil rights issues if elected.
Because while pragmatically, the Democratic Party does need to votes of (racist) working class whites, part of me feels like the party would be better off without them or at the very least shouldn't be pandering to them.
Edit- Or to put it another way, I'm generally uncomfortable with how Sanders treats this as a selling point for himself/a knock against other Democrats.
edited 26th Jan '16 1:48:52 PM by Hodor2
Said policies slowly strangled Argentina.
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Actually, the main difference between them is that Peron got more votes than Sanders ever will, with his complete lack of appeal in important borderline states like Florida.
Because either he thinks he can "trick" them into voting for him because of shared ground on economic issues, but doesn't plan to pander to them if elected; or else, he's not going to be good about civil rights issues if elected.
These are not compromises he makes, they're the fixtures of his entire campaign. Coincidentally, his anti-free trade ideas are the only ones he can put into practice. His other ideas, like the $15 minimum wage (lol
) have to go through Congress.
edited 26th Jan '16 1:56:31 PM by Nihlus1
I think that Sanders is trying to walk a very fine line. He knows that there are liberal/progressive gun owners who are turned off by calls for aggressive gun control policy, and he wants to court their votes as someone who comes from a state that has a long tradition of celebrating responsible gun ownership.
On the other hand, he does not want to attract the "we have guns so we can shoot uppity Negroes" crowd, because he knows how toxic they are to Democratic values, never mind that I'm sure he does not share their beliefs.
Very different economic situations. Argentina is/was a Third World nation that relies on exports to survive; protectionist trade policy can be important in such countries to nurture local industry but can also strangle its income. The United States is almost entirely self-sufficient and the exploitation of cheap labor in other countries is not a necessity but rather a way to gain internal competitive advantage. Limit that and you are changing the playing field without killing the game.
Anyway, I already discussed the problems with "free trade" in a prior post, and the real anticompetitive practices in our warped idea of that term are by us, protecting our own industries from international competition. Remove those and the trade will be a lot more free.
edited 26th Jan '16 1:54:46 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"With teens supporting Trump as a matter of shock value, all I could think of was the old The Far Side strip with the calf in a leather jacket.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Dammit Fighteer you ruin fun so much
There's people who are blatant Trump supporters and you ban them, and there's people comparing U.S economical and political history with that of Latin American ones and you try to talk them ut of it before we even get to the social implication bits of what Peron did
It's like you know I get my schadenfreude kick out of this stuff and you hate me having it.
I propose we kick Fighteer as a mod, he makes weak choices. Vote Aszur for TV Tropes mod.
MAKE TVTROPES GREAT AGAIN 2016
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesThen Peron knocked down the economy bit by bit with his nativist, anti-free trade policies. Sanders wants to erect trade barriers and tariffs the same way Peron did
He doesn't want to just "limit" it. He's a full-on protectionist.
Voted NO on implementing US-Australia Free Trade Agreement.
Voted NO on implementing US-Singapore free trade agreement.
Voted NO on implementing free trade agreement with Chile.
Voted YES on withdrawing from the WTO.
Voted NO on 'Fast Track' authority for trade agreements
Extend trade restrictions on Burma to promote democracy.
Review free trade agreements biennially for rights violation.
Impose tariffs against countries which manipulate currency.
No MFN for China; condition trade on human rights.
When you trade with another country, every dollar you spend buying that country's goods comes back into your own economy when that country buys your country's goods or invest it in your economy. That money doesn't just disappear into a puff of smoke, as Sanders thinks of US trade with China. When those American factories close down and move to China, the dollars we spend importing Chinese goods come right back into the US economy when China buys American jumbo jets and American cranes. Those dollars come right back into the US economy when the Chinese buys American government bonds and the US government takes that money and spends it in America. Those dollars come right back into the US economy when Chinese investors use American dollars to invest in American companies which spend those dollars in America.
I think you're projecting a saner stance onto him than he's actually shown. Much like with the immigration issue, which some people think is about stopping the (mythical) $3 an hour wages that the corporate conspiracy is paying illegals, rather than Sanders fully buying into the lump labor fallacy.
This is, by the way, the exact opposite of what is done in countries he holds up as ideal examples of a good economy, like Denmark.
It's much more in line with... Peron's Argentina. Of course he can't actually say that, so he'll continue saying
he wants to make the USA more like Denmark.
edited 26th Jan '16 2:17:48 PM by Nihlus1
so... Channel 4 just aired a documentary about Trump... it is disturbing... I think I will join Salmond in purchasing a ticket to Antarctica now...
edited 26th Jan '16 2:06:27 PM by FieldMarshalFry
advancing the front into TV TropesGod as my witness if you try to link me back with Spain i will kick your british asses so hard that whoseoever can pull out my foot from your ass will be rightwise born King of All England
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesWhy? The U.S is not really going to stop selling shit to others, and if they start trying to sell shit at a higher produce because it is now made by legit merican hands everyone is going to turn elsewhere, like China.
Exports are not going to stop. So long as they dont, the U.S can blow itself up for all the rest of the world cares.
Come on man. Respect history. Just take it without permission, like your ancestors did to mine!
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes![]()
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I notice that a lot of your arguments are "President X won't do anything, even when he said would". Like "Sanders said he'd prevent more immigration but he will not actually prevent more immigration".
Trump and Sanders fully plan to severely reduce trade with places like China, which will have disastrous effects for those economies.
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Many comparisons to Trump will by extension be comparisons to Sanders. They have the same economic policies.
edited 26th Jan '16 3:19:59 PM by Nihlus1

People are allowed to change their views in politics. It's called thinking, and we should prefer them to do more of it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"