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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109576: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:32:47 PM

People are allowed to change their views in politics. It's called thinking, and we should prefer them to do more of it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109577: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:34:16 PM

[up][up][up]And I've seen several people who support Juan Pe- I mean Sanders. Disproportionately young white liberals on the Internet, or older union workers.

We see a lot of crazy things.

Anyway, cool, San Diego is still the USA's safest major city.cool

edited 26th Jan '16 1:35:45 PM by Nihlus1

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109578: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:35:45 PM

[up] Probably because of the giant Military base right next door.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109579: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:37:47 PM

Yeah, it's just too bad about all those job stealing rape gangs. (Sarcasm)

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109580: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:38:58 PM

[up][up][up] Juan Perón? I really don't think that the politics of the United States and of Argentina are directly comparable; we haven't had a military coup to overthrow a liberal President yet, for one thing. And I don't think Sanders has in mind suspending the Constitutional separation of powers in order to get his policy ideas enacted.

By all means, continue down that particular line of poisoning the well if you like. We'll Pass the Popcorn.

edited 26th Jan '16 1:41:38 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109581: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:41:48 PM

Aw, I missed it. What happened?

Some guy with a Trump avatar and Trump related handle appeared to say stupid shit.

Anyways, yes, Clinton did support Goldwater, again, when she was 16 years old. Whereas Trump went to a private school, was kicked by behavior problems, was sent to military school, and then didnt get anything more than a bach degree in a business school related to the University of Pennsylvania.

Compare to Clinton, with a JD in Law from Yale.

Speaking of Trump, arent his wives immigrants? Guess that proves immigrants do the jobs no other person in the U.S cares for

edited 26th Jan '16 1:43:13 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109582: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:43:23 PM

[up] One of his wives. And in fairness Trump is talking about illegal immigrants, though many of us believe he will deliberately deport US citizens or people who are here legally. And in any mass round up thing like that are sure to happen

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#109583: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:44:12 PM

For what it's worth, I'm pretty solidly pro-Clinton (compared to Sanders). Although he has said a lot of things that make me more sympathetic to him,I'm really uneasy about his "shtick" (generally cited in defense of his gun control record) to the effect of being able to win over racist white voters (he doesn't express it this way but it's clearly what he means).

Because either he thinks he can "trick" them into voting for him because of shared ground on economic issues, but doesn't plan to pander to them if elected; or else, he's not going to be good about civil rights issues if elected.

Because while pragmatically, the Democratic Party does need to votes of (racist) working class whites, part of me feels like the party would be better off without them or at the very least shouldn't be pandering to them.

Edit- Or to put it another way, I'm generally uncomfortable with how Sanders treats this as a selling point for himself/a knock against other Democrats.

edited 26th Jan '16 1:48:52 PM by Hodor2

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109584: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:49:22 PM

Juan Perón? I really don't think that the politics of the United States and of Argentina are directly comparable;
I never said that US and Argentine politics were "directly comparable". Sanders IS very similar to a Peronist, though. He's using the exact same rhetoric with his anti-free trade diatribes.

Said policies slowly strangled Argentina.

Actually, the main difference between them is that Peron got more votes than Sanders ever will, with his complete lack of appeal in important borderline states like Florida.

Although he has said a lot of things that make me more sympathetic to him,I'm really uneasy about his "shtick" (generally cited in defense of his gun control record) to the effect of being able to win over racist white voters (he doesn't express it this way but it's clearly what he means).

Because either he thinks he can "trick" them into voting for him because of shared ground on economic issues, but doesn't plan to pander to them if elected; or else, he's not going to be good about civil rights issues if elected.

Xenophobic whites tend to gravitate towards Sanders, much like Trump, because he's anti-free trade, anti-globalization, and anti-immigration. He supports reducing visa quotas, severely reducing the flow of "unskilled" immigrants, and "radically reforming" the current system to be more nativist and protectionist (he HATES NAFTA, TPP, and regular trade relations with China).

These are not compromises he makes, they're the fixtures of his entire campaign. Coincidentally, his anti-free trade ideas are the only ones he can put into practice. His other ideas, like the $15 minimum wage (lol) have to go through Congress.

edited 26th Jan '16 1:56:31 PM by Nihlus1

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109585: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:49:45 PM

I think that Sanders is trying to walk a very fine line. He knows that there are liberal/progressive gun owners who are turned off by calls for aggressive gun control policy, and he wants to court their votes as someone who comes from a state that has a long tradition of celebrating responsible gun ownership.

On the other hand, he does not want to attract the "we have guns so we can shoot uppity Negroes" crowd, because he knows how toxic they are to Democratic values, never mind that I'm sure he does not share their beliefs.

[up] Very different economic situations. Argentina is/was a Third World nation that relies on exports to survive; protectionist trade policy can be important in such countries to nurture local industry but can also strangle its income. The United States is almost entirely self-sufficient and the exploitation of cheap labor in other countries is not a necessity but rather a way to gain internal competitive advantage. Limit that and you are changing the playing field without killing the game.

Anyway, I already discussed the problems with "free trade" in a prior post, and the real anticompetitive practices in our warped idea of that term are by us, protecting our own industries from international competition. Remove those and the trade will be a lot more free.

edited 26th Jan '16 1:54:46 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#109586: Jan 26th 2016 at 1:59:18 PM

With teens supporting Trump as a matter of shock value, all I could think of was the old The Far Side strip with the calf in a leather jacket.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109587: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:00:06 PM

Dammit Fighteer you ruin fun so much

There's people who are blatant Trump supporters and you ban them, and there's people comparing U.S economical and political history with that of Latin American ones and you try to talk them ut of it before we even get to the social implication bits of what Peron did

It's like you know I get my schadenfreude kick out of this stuff and you hate me having it.

I propose we kick Fighteer as a mod, he makes weak choices. Vote Aszur for TV Tropes mod.

MAKE TVTROPES GREAT AGAIN 2016

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109588: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:06:02 PM

Very different economic situations. Argentina is/was a Third World nation that relies on exports to survive; protectionist trade policy can be important in such countries to nurture local industry but can also strangle its income.
Argentina was a first-world nation with a QOL comparable to western European nations when Peron entered office.

Then Peron knocked down the economy bit by bit with his nativist, anti-free trade policies. Sanders wants to erect trade barriers and tariffs the same way Peron did

The United States is almost entirely self-sufficient and the exploitation of cheap labor in other countries is not a necessity but rather a way to gain internal competitive advantage. Limit that and you are changing the playing field without killing the game.
That "exploitation" of cheap labor (which has led to massive increases of QOL in the affected countries, especially China) benefits both economies if applied properly. True, some limits are in order, but here's the thing:

He doesn't want to just "limit" it. He's a full-on protectionist.

Voted NO on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade.

Voted NO on implementing US-Australia Free Trade Agreement.

Voted NO on implementing US-Singapore free trade agreement.

Voted NO on implementing free trade agreement with Chile.

Voted YES on withdrawing from the WTO.

Voted NO on 'Fast Track' authority for trade agreements

Extend trade restrictions on Burma to promote democracy.

Review free trade agreements biennially for rights violation.

Impose tariffs against countries which manipulate currency.

No MFN for China; condition trade on human rights.

When you trade with another country, every dollar you spend buying that country's goods comes back into your own economy when that country buys your country's goods or invest it in your economy. That money doesn't just disappear into a puff of smoke, as Sanders thinks of US trade with China. When those American factories close down and move to China, the dollars we spend importing Chinese goods come right back into the US economy when China buys American jumbo jets and American cranes. Those dollars come right back into the US economy when the Chinese buys American government bonds and the US government takes that money and spends it in America. Those dollars come right back into the US economy when Chinese investors use American dollars to invest in American companies which spend those dollars in America.

I think you're projecting a saner stance onto him than he's actually shown. Much like with the immigration issue, which some people think is about stopping the (mythical) $3 an hour wages that the corporate conspiracy is paying illegals, rather than Sanders fully buying into the lump labor fallacy.

This is, by the way, the exact opposite of what is done in countries he holds up as ideal examples of a good economy, like Denmark. It's much more in line with... Peron's Argentina. Of course he can't actually say that, so he'll continue saying he wants to make the USA more like Denmark.

There's people who are blatant Trump supporters and you ban them,
Is that all he was banned for? Supporting Trump? I've seen much worse on these forums.

edited 26th Jan '16 2:17:48 PM by Nihlus1

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#109589: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:06:17 PM

so... Channel 4 just aired a documentary about Trump... it is disturbing... I think I will join Salmond in purchasing a ticket to Antarctica now...

edited 26th Jan '16 2:06:27 PM by FieldMarshalFry

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#109590: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:11:30 PM

[up]I thought we were going to take back the colonies once Trump drove the country into the ground?

We'll take back New Amsterdam, you can have everything else, I'm sure France would want to get in on it as well. It's a win for everyone!

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109591: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:12:48 PM

Trump's policies should really have foreigners worried more than Americans.

edited 26th Jan '16 2:15:48 PM by Nihlus1

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109592: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:17:49 PM

[up]I thought we were going to take back the colonies once Trump drove the country into the ground?

God as my witness if you try to link me back with Spain i will kick your british asses so hard that whoseoever can pull out my foot from your ass will be rightwise born King of All England

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#109593: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:22:58 PM

[up]I occasionally dabble in creative writing. Can I steal that?

edited 26th Jan '16 2:23:18 PM by Kayeka

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#109594: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:24:24 PM

[up]it's already public domain! muahahahaha!

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109595: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:28:52 PM

Trump's policies should really have foreigners worried more than Americans.

Why? The U.S is not really going to stop selling shit to others, and if they start trying to sell shit at a higher produce because it is now made by legit merican hands everyone is going to turn elsewhere, like China.

Exports are not going to stop. So long as they dont, the U.S can blow itself up for all the rest of the world cares.

[up]I occasionally dabble in creative writing. Can I steal that?

Come on man. Respect history. Just take it without permission, like your ancestors did to mine!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#109596: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:30:33 PM

I will kick your British asses so hard that whoseoever can pull out my foot from your ass will be rightwise born King of All England.

Sounds like something Samuel L. Jackson might say.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#109597: Jan 26th 2016 at 2:57:47 PM

Argentine here: honestly, I'd compare Peron more with Trump than Sanders, will elaborate on it later.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#109598: Jan 26th 2016 at 3:11:31 PM

Make Argentina Grande Again?

Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#109599: Jan 26th 2016 at 3:18:38 PM

[up][up][up][up]I notice that a lot of your arguments are "President X won't do anything, even when he said would". Like "Sanders said he'd prevent more immigration but he will not actually prevent more immigration".

Trump and Sanders fully plan to severely reduce trade with places like China, which will have disastrous effects for those economies.

[up][up]Many comparisons to Trump will by extension be comparisons to Sanders. They have the same economic policies.

edited 26th Jan '16 3:19:59 PM by Nihlus1

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#109600: Jan 26th 2016 at 3:19:40 PM

How are Trump and Sanders comparable exactly?

Oh really when?

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