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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#109201: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:06:02 PM

""Donald Trump will make Anime real."

[up] What does that even mean?? [/confused]

edited 20th Jan '16 1:06:17 PM by speedyboris

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#109202: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:19:26 PM

This is farcical. Can't we talk about actual politics?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109203: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:19:51 PM

YEAH GUYS

LETS MAKE THE THREAD GREAT AGAIN

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#109204: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:37:30 PM

At the very least, I don't think 4channers are a huge voting block.

As an otaku, the idea that I might be painted with the same brush strokes as a Trump supporter only helps me to better sympathize with the Muslim community.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#109205: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:52:31 PM

Trump is a farce. Expecting non-farcical politics talk is futile.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#109206: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:13:27 PM

[up][up]I think there may only be the one guy actually, endlessly replying to himself

edited 20th Jan '16 2:13:36 PM by FieldMarshalFry

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#109207: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:58:12 PM

Weakened at Bernie's

Krugman on Sanders:

But here’s the thing: we now have a clear view of Sanders’ positions on two crucial issues, financial reform and health care. And in both cases his positioning is disturbing — not just because it’s politically unrealistic to imagine that we can get the kind of radical overhaul he’s proposing, but also because he takes his own version of cheap shots. Not at people — he really is a fundamentally decent guy — but by going for easy slogans and punting when the going gets tough.

On finance: Sanders has made restoring Glass-Steagal and breaking up the big banks the be-all and end-all of his program. That sounds good, but it’s nowhere near solving the real problems. The core of what went wrong in 2008 was the rise of shadow banking; too big to fail was at best marginal, and as Mike Konczal notes, pushing the big banks out of shadow banking, on its own, could make the problem worse by causing the risky stuff to “migrate elsewhere, often to places where there is less regulatory infrastructure.”

On health care: leave on one side the virtual impossibility of achieving single-payer. Beyond the politics, the Sanders “plan” isn’t just lacking in detail; as Ezra Klein notes, it both promises more comprehensive coverage than Medicare or for that matter single-payer systems in other countries, and assumes huge cost savings that are at best unlikely given that kind of generosity.

edited 20th Jan '16 3:50:38 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109208: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:22:03 PM

I think you mean "Krugman on Sanders". I think Krugman on Trump would just be "OH GOD, WHY?" written a few hundred times.

On the actual article: it makes me sad. I really respect Krugman and I want to pull for Sanders, given that he's left of Clinton and I like his ideas. But if Krugman says that Sanders is missing the point and fudging the numbers, then I've got to believe him. Damnit.

I guess the best thing to hope for now is for Sanders to pull Clinton farther left, but Clinton to win in the end.

[down]Krugman is talking about Sanders, but what Achaemenid wrote was "Krugman on Trump".

edited 20th Jan '16 3:42:37 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109209: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:35:48 PM

[up] Um he's actually talking about Sanders.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109210: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:37:33 PM

Yeah, I was saddened by that. Krugman has been very much in favor of Clinton without coming right out and saying it; he's fundamentally a moderate liberal, not one for radical change. Really, though, the key economic and social positions that most of us agree upon are center-left by objective standards; it's just that the political climate in the United States has swung so far rightward (although it is slowing coming back) that they look extreme by comparison.

If Sanders is dropping magic asterisks in his plans, it belies his promise that the American people would be willing to support his ideas if they are sufficiently informed about them.

edited 20th Jan '16 3:38:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109211: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:42:26 PM

[up] Is their even such a thing as objective standard when it comes to the overton window?

Edit: If Sanders's welfare state is more generous than those in Europe I doubt it will survive, let alone be passed. They are already buckling under the strain of their systems. Mind you Krugman isn't god and his words are not infallible, I really disagree with him on the space program for example.

edited 20th Jan '16 3:44:54 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109212: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:43:23 PM

I assume he meant global standards.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109213: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:46:11 PM

[up] But one could argue that global standards are actually to the far left of where they were a few centuries ago. Where the center lies is always subjective, and in the end irrelevant. What matters is what is best for the country and it's citizens.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#109214: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:52:16 PM

why doesn't he just "ctrl c, ctrl v" the NHS? :P

advancing the front into TV Tropes
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109215: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:57:10 PM

It occurs to me that Sanders' drawing the youth vote as much as he is, based on polls, is because a lot of the younger voters he'd be drawing from were essentially screwed by the 2008 crisis. They saw their own futures get fucked up, college debt hanging over them that they were never adequately explained about, and saw these big banks and businesses not get utterly burned to the ground or punished.

Well, I half wonder if those that would vote for him want things done simple, and honestly want blood.

Slow progress isn't good enough for some people. I think which is the appeal here. Especially with gutting the banks and doing something about the current state of Student Debt. To a fair number of people, that is one of the things that should of happened. Had the banks been chopshopped by Obama, or people had gotten debt forgiveness, I think Sanders might not be as strong.

Not that they're the sole issue, but not breaking up the big banks is a major sore point for a lot of people, especially since the average American didn't get a 'bailout'. And ditto the Student Debt for the young.

edited 20th Jan '16 3:58:50 PM by PotatoesRock

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109216: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:57:53 PM

[up][up] Might as well resign as president, change the name of the legislature to Parliament, make Paul Ryan the PM, and put the Queen back as our head of state while we are at it.tongue

edited 20th Jan '16 3:58:07 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#109217: Jan 20th 2016 at 3:59:18 PM

I like that idea, I like it a lot, you colonials should do it

advancing the front into TV Tropes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109218: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:01:47 PM

[up] Seeing as even Scotland wants to leave your dam union we'll take our chances.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#109219: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:05:06 PM

Hey, most people voted against that.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109220: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:11:07 PM

[up] Details details. And besides, the SNP swept into power in Scotland in the very next election.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#109221: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:12:53 PM

Because, afterovoting yes, cognitive dissonance would not let the yessers vote for nom-nationalist parties.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#109222: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:23:38 PM

How would making the risky stuff go elsewhere make things worse?

[up][up] Lots of pro-union people vote SNP, due to the SNP being reasonable and left wing.

edited 20th Jan '16 4:26:27 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#109223: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:26:18 PM

I find Krugman's statements strange. Even though he talks about imaginary numbers the crux of his argument is very much one of "political reality" which he reiterates in this follow up where he brings up Vermont's attempt to bring about a single payer system.

It just kind of disingenuous from someone who has riled against seemingly timid action on issues in the past. Admittedly those were different issues, but I don't know why he is being so particularly cynical about this issue.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109224: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:32:23 PM

A lot of the technocrats/moderate leftists are basically already exhausted from trying to defend Obamacare that they're very upset that Sanders is basically pulling "NOT PURE ENOUGH" out, and demanding them refight a battle that Republicans are already giving them infinite grief over, I believe is the issue?

(Also Krugman is tired of years of Magic Asterisks being pulled out of Paul Ryan's ass that he's tired of seeing people go HOPE. DREAMS. CHANGE. Without offering good solid math.)

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109225: Jan 20th 2016 at 4:44:28 PM

[up][up]The fact that it'd be a major political battle was already obvious to anyone paying attention. Politics you can deal with. The fact that the math of his plan doesn't work, though? That's a dealbreaker. It's the difference between "this would be really hard, but we can make it work" and "this won't work, period".

[up]That's it in a nutshell, yeah. A single payer system would be preferable to Obamacare, but even Obamacare was such a hard sell that a lot of people don't want to have a massive health care fight again. Of course, people tend to phrase it as pitching out Obamacare and running the risk of the Republicans sending us back to the bad old days pre-Obamacare, but I don't really see that being a possibility — worst case scenario is that, due to Republican meddling, the new healthcare bill is an enormous clusterfuck that's actually worse than Obamacare... at which point, President Sanders vetoes it for being a step backwards instead of a step forwards, and we're no worse off than we were before.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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