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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#109101: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:28:20 AM

[up][up]Likewise. Indeed, I'm only defending that dude knew how to write fairly plausible black swan events. Everything else I'm in agreement with you.

Anyway, to get myself back on topic, I never saw the Dem debate this weekend and the news can't seem to make up its mind on who won. Any consensus here on the thread?

edited 19th Jan '16 7:28:46 AM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109102: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:45:57 AM

I watched it for about an hour and I couldn't handle the candidates trying to upstage each other constantly, so I turned it off. Hillary took a jump in the polls post-debate, and her put-downs of Sanders' plans to replace the healthcare system as being impossibly idealistic seem to have struck home.

I saw at least one article stating that the winner of the debate was not on the stage at all: it was Barack Obama, whom all the candidates hailed as making tremendous achievements while in office as they vowed to continue his legacy.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:46:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#109103: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:46:31 AM

As usual, there's a transcript which will take far less time to read than actually watching it.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109104: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:00:08 AM

Of what I read, Sanders managed to put Hillary on the defensive, though she did circle his biggest weakness: His gun record.

And that with this plus his current polls, he should start being taken seriously.

Though he does seem to piss off the Beltway's liberal technocratic journalists, I notice.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#109105: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:36:51 AM

And comedian "newscasters", for some weird reason.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109106: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:39:36 AM

I thought that Sanders countered Clinton's points about his gun record pretty well. The guy obviously believes in reasonable gun control laws, and trying to point out that he did or didn't vote for a specific bill (back in 2000, I think it was? So, like, 15 years ago?) isn't really relevant on the wider issue. Sanders pointing out that the NRA still hates him (they gave him a D- grade on his gun legislation record) was a pretty good response.

That sort of "he's soft on gun control, look at this one vote he made more than a decade ago!" works well in attack ads, but poorly when he's standing right there to call out how dumb a complaint it is.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#109107: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:45:03 AM

D-? Well, my impression is that the "NRA hates them" ranking is F. Not sure if there is an E though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109108: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:46:20 AM

My impression is "The NRA THINKS!?"

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109109: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:52:24 AM

[up][up]There's no E, they're using the grading system used by the American Educational System, which is (the highest) A, B, C, D, and F (the lowest). A D- is literally the second-worst grade you can get, better only than an F (as there's no such thing as an F+ or an F-).

If that's the worst thing you can say about someone's gun control record, then I actually see that as a plus, given that some gun control bills (like the assault weapons ban, which was pure "let's do something so we can be seen to be doing something, rather than doing something that actually helps deal with the problem") are stupid and should have been voted down.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#109110: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:10:17 AM

Doesn't the NRA give Democrats/progressives lower scores, even if they are reasonable (to the NRA) or even mostly agree with them on gun control?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109111: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:20:21 AM

There's a lot of xenophobia in our politics. The general idea that if given the chance, all the other nations would bull-rush into our nation like a horde of bloodthirsty barbarians and start raping and pillaging the country is a fundamental backbone of a lot of foreign policy criticisms.

It's kind of ironic because we make fun of the likes of Kim Jong-un for basing much of his politics around the EVILS of the SINISTER West, then unironically turn around and start talking about how we need to build walls and nuclear weapons to protect our own against those terrifying Mexicans and Chinese.

edited 19th Jan '16 9:20:32 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#109112: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:30:34 AM

I'm hopeful that will eventually be bred out of the system as more minorities come in.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109113: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:34:49 AM

No no dont you see

Kim Jong un is actually pretty amazing

because he makes all those people listen to him

at gunpoint

to their heads

and their families

so amazing

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#109114: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:36:15 AM

Yeah Sanders gun policies are a weird place to attack him, as they're probably where he's more connected with the American people, sane gun control over "looks good but does nothing to help" gun control.

Hillary coming at Sanders from the left is a strange thing to see.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#109115: Jan 19th 2016 at 9:45:48 AM

Doesn't the NRA give Democrats/progressives lower scores, even if they are reasonable (to the NRA) or even mostly agree with them on gun control?

Basically. It's a meme with more than a bit of truth that a Democrat can vote against every single gun control legislation and score no higher than a C or a D with the NRA. The only prominent Democrat I've heard of scoring higher is Jim Webb, who was a Republican until Bush fucked up Iraq and still held mostly moderate Republican views despite running as a Democrat.

As for Bernie and the beltway press, I think quite a few people see him as being a threat to the slow but steady change kicked off by the Obama Administration, (and to be honest, while the change initiated by Obama has been steady, it hasn't really been all that slow, if you look at what has been done and the changes that have happened thanks to his administration) and Matthew Yglesias, (far from my favorite writer, but who occasionally has good points to make) wrote an article recently trashing Bernie's plans, with some cogent points made.

The man thrust of the article would be that while Bernie has a few details on how he'd like to pay for various things like free state colleges or Medicare for all, he has no or next to no details on implementation. For example, what if state schools that are now tuition free and are already often taught by underpaid, adjunct, or part-time professors, become massively overcrowded and don't have the teachers, the space, or the facilities to teach all the new incoming students? What if states pull the same sort of BS they did with Medicaid expansion and refuse to meet their obligations or continue doing what so many states have done in recent years and slash funding for higher education? If the whole thing is paid for by surcharges on Wall St. trades, what if the cost of schools goes up faster than the amount of Wall St. trades? What if new taxes and fees get neutered as the bill goes through Congress?

Similarly, with healthcare, part of healthcare in at least some single payer systems is a central authority that sets the wages of all doctors, techs, and other practitioners. Is Bernie going to be able to get something like that through Congress? Is his proposed Medicare for all going to cover abortion costs, and how likely do you think that is to get approved? What about controversial and potential quacky alternative medicines like acupuncture, naturopathy, homeopathy, herbal supplements, weight loss pills, etc.? How much is the country willing to spend on research to not only weed out the quackery from the real thing, but also to challenge conventional wisdom? (For example, recent studies are hinting that the glycemic index, which has been the Bible for managing diabetes reactions, may be inaccurate and the reaction to eating different foods is far more individual than previously thought.)

Also, I'm sure many fear a snap back against the seeming rising tide of liberalism, just as there was when Reagan came to office. Afterall, prior to Regan, it was a Republican administration that proposed a plan nearly identical to Obamacare as an alternative to single payer. It was a Republican administration that created the EPA. Etc., etc. The pendulum swing that reacted to those liberal times has brought us this far, would a botched or shoddily implemented quasi-socialist administration bring about a similar result?

(Keep in mind these aren't necessarily my opinion, but trying to get across the points of a specific article or imagine the inner working of the minds of a group of journalists.)

edited 19th Jan '16 9:46:22 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#109116: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:18:16 AM

[up]

Similarly, with healthcare, part of healthcare in at least some single payer systems is a central authority that sets the wages of all doctors, techs, and other practitioners. Is Bernie going to be able to get something like that through Congress? Is his proposed Medicare for all going to cover abortion costs, and how likely do you think that is to get approved? What about controversial and potential quacky alternative medicines like acupuncture, naturopathy, homeopathy, herbal supplements, weight loss pills, etc.? How much is the country willing to spend on research to not only weed out the quackery from the real thing, but also to challenge conventional wisdom? (For example, recent studies are hinting that the glycemic index, which has been the Bible for managing diabetes reactions, may be inaccurate and the reaction to eating different foods is far more individual than previously thought.)

That central authority will also buy Medicines as well. And also — who will assess and regulate the Doctors & Hospitals? What will be the role of Charities and the Private Sector? Will they be nationalised or continue to exist as an additional option? How will vehicle fleets be managed? What will happen to Fire Brigades, as some ambulance departments are part of them?

Keep Rolling On
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#109117: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:25:13 AM

[up][up]

Bernie also supports the $15 minimum wage, which is crazy outside of the very few areas of the United States where that's necessary to meet the cost of living.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:25:31 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#109118: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:26:54 AM

Not really, more like it's needed everywhere outside of a few cities where it still isn't enough.

Oh really when?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#109119: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:30:12 AM

[up] I guess you'd prefer a minimum wage higher than $15/hour? $20/hour?

edited 19th Jan '16 10:30:39 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#109120: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:31:21 AM

In someplace like New York it really needs to be but $15 is a good number to happen at a national level.

Oh really when?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#109121: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:45:50 AM

Not really, more like it's needed everywhere outside of a few cities where it still isn't enough.

Yes, I foresee absolutely no problems whatsoever with raising the minimum wage in Mississippi above the current median wage.

In general minimum wage rises are an inefficient way of redistributing wealth, since businesses will pass higher employment costs on to consumers or employees by raising prices and downsizing. Tax credits generally work much better. Denmark and Sweden don't even have minimum wages, for example.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:51:08 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#109122: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:47:08 AM

I'm not about to let the rest of the nation suffer because of Mississippi of all states.

Oh really when?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#109123: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:48:12 AM

How does Sanders think Congress will cooperate at all with him on any of his proposals?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109124: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:55:22 AM

How does any president think congress will cooperate with them in all things

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#109125: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:59:11 AM

I'm not about to let the rest of the nation suffer because of Mississippi of all states.

What does this even mean?

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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